Doe won't let me near her to milk

shanzone2001 · #1 03/24/12, 05:12 PM

My nubian doe is about to kid. I want to bottle feed the babies because the doe is super skiddish and I don't want them to be like her.
Can I just leave them with her for a day or two to get colostrum and then pull them and bottle feed them with milk from my other doe?
I want to milk this nubian but she will not let me near her and I know she will not let me milk her even if I caught her. If I can't milk her out do I have to leave kids on her so she doesn't explode or get an infection?

Oat Bucket Farm · #2 03/24/12, 05:32 PM

If you pull the kids immediately and let her lick birthing goo off your hands, she will bond with you and be more likely to let you milk her. After she is done kidding and licking your hands, then work on milking out the colostrum for the kids. She will likely yell at you a lot for the first week or so after kidding for not getting out there and laying down where she told you to, you disobedient "kid".

IndyGardenGal · #3 03/24/12, 05:35 PM

You may need to figure out a way to hobble her. CaliannG has posted some good advice on "goat bondage" lol. If you give her the kids, you may end up having an even hard time getting her to let you milk.

Alice In TX/MO · #4 03/24/12, 05:36 PM

Oh dear! I wish you'd asked all this a few months ago.

You said, "I want to milk this Nubian but she will not let me near her and I know she will not let me milk her even if I caught her."

Usually, if you are planning to milk a goat, you spend some time training her to the milk stand during her pregnancy. You tame her to be caught, handled, to get on the milk stand, and to be touched on her udder.

If you can't catch her now, milking her would be a rodeo. She would fight you and kick you and be VERY unpleasant. Yes, you could hobble her, but plan on a couple of weeks of fighting with her twice a day.

Her udder will not explode if you just leave the kids on her.

You might want to let her raise these kids and spend the next year taming her. It's a good time of year to find and purchase a doe in milk that knows how to be a milk goat instead of a wild thing.

Also, bottle feeding kids is *normally* done from the beginning, as they are reluctant to take a bottle after being on the mom, even for a couple of days.

Oat Bucket Farm · #5 03/24/12, 05:40 PM

Also, how she acts now about you messing with her udder, may not be indicative of how she will act after she kids if you pull the babies immediately.

Bella leaped two feet in the air danced like a crazy woman if we tried to mess with her udder before she gave birth. After she gave birth (we pulled the kids before she ever saw them), I was able to milk her the first time while she stood untied in the stall. She never kicked or jumped. She's been fresh since Tuesday and hasn't stomped, jumped, kicked,or danced once.

That said, we once once owned a Nubian that we got as an adult. She turned out to be wild as a March hare and crazy as a loon. It was the worst kind of rodeo. We sold her and the people who bought her ended up having to tie her legs and use a belly band strung from the rafters to get milk out of her.

IndyGardenGal · #6 03/24/12, 05:44 PM

My hugely pregnant Saanen doesn't want us even feeling her ligaments right now, but she's an excellent and easy milker.

Alice In TX/MO · #7 03/24/12, 05:52 PM

The only Nubian I ever had was gentle as a lamb till I put her on the milk stand. She's not in my herd now. I must admit, the word "Nubian" may have prejudiced my answer.

shanzone2001 · #8 03/24/12, 05:52 PM

OK, don't shoot me (or laugh at me)....can't I just pull the babies when they are born and leave her on her own to dry up? What happens in nature when a kid dies and a doe is full of milk? Does she die from overfill/infection or just dry up?

Alice In TX/MO · #9 03/24/12, 06:01 PM

OK, I'm confused. You said you wanted milk?

I'm going to be straight with you here....

Have you ever had children? Full breasts? Do you want to put an animal bred to produce a high quantity of milk through that pain?

She *might* be ok if you did that, but she also might get mastitis.

What you are thinking of doing isn't very nice to the goat.

thaiblue12 · #10 03/24/12, 06:03 PM

You should be giving her treats and slowly getting her to warm up to you. It takes time but she can be tamed.
Trust me wild or not- in labor and while pushing she will not care if you touch her so give her good scratches, and let her lick the goo off your hands.

Why go through the added expense of raising her kids if you plan to dry her off? If you keep them on her and spend time with them each day they will all tame and she will stay in milk.

If she has bucklings I would leave them on her no matter what. I only bottle boys when I have to and they are all tame, to the point of being annoying.
It is painful to let her kid, fill up like that then force her to dry off soon after, plus it is a waste of colostrum and milk.

shanzone2001 · #11 03/24/12, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

OK, I'm confused. You said you wanted milk?

I'm going to be straight with you here....

Have you ever had children? Full breasts? Do you want to put an animal bred to produce a high quantity of milk through that pain?

She *might* be ok if you did that, but she also might get mastitis.

What you are thinking of doing isn't very nice to the goat.

That is the response I was looking for...if pulling the kids and leaving her to dry up would be mean and cause her pain. I don't "need" the milk because I have another doe who produces a lot and would be enough for her kids, too.
I just bred her for the babies.
I am hoping to be there when she kids so I can try what has been suggested. One thing I need to do is get her in a smaller pen/stall so I can get near her. I am hoping proximity will help her get used to me being around...
I blame this on all you goat folks....you make this all seem so easy. I am loving my easy chickens right now!!!

shanzone2001 · #12 03/24/12, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaiblue12

If you keep them on her and spend time with them each day they will all tame and she will stay in milk.

Sounds like a plan. I have time off for spring break so the timing is good....

Alice In TX/MO · #13 03/24/12, 06:44 PM

I had to laugh.

I was just telling my hubby a couple of hours ago that people don't realize that dairy goats are the MOST high maintenance animal on the farm.

You could get her in a small pen and read her Moby Dick a hour at a time, morning and evening. That would help. Hubby says play soft music in the background.

Fritos might help, too.

Backfourty,MI. · #14 03/24/12, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

I had to laugh.

I was just telling my hubby a couple of hours ago that people don't realize that dairy goats are the MOST high maintenance animal on the farm.

You could get her in a small pen and read her Moby Dick a hour at a time, morning and evening. That would help. Hubby says play soft music in the background.

Fritos might help, too.

Animals crackers do it for mine!

I would follow Alice & thaiblue's advice.

KrisD · #15 03/24/12, 07:13 PM

Funny one of my first goats was a Nubian who was completely feral. I couldn't ge within 10 feet of her ever. The only way to get her to go anywhere was to move the other goats and she would follow. I bred her and literally had to tackle her to catch her kids. I left the bucklings with her and bottle raised the girls. I spent 5 years trying to tame that stupid goat and she never did tame down at all. Even for treats she wouldn't come near. She was wild till the day she died. She was never wormed, never vaccinated and never trimmed. All my other goats were normal. Probably the reason I don't like Nubians is because of her.

Personally if your doe were mine I would pull doelings and leave the bucklings on her. Hopefully she has at least 1 of each. The doe kids will be tame and your bucklings will be like her. Then spend the rest of the year working with her. Send the bucklings to freezer camp. Good luck! If she is anything like the one I had you will need it.

CaliannG · #16 03/24/12, 07:47 PM

I am with Audra on this.

THIS season, I had a 2 year old Alpine FF that was dam raised, and pretty much feral. Couldn't do ANYTHING with her without a chase and a fight.

But, at kidding, we pulled her babies immediately, covered ourselves in birth goo, and milked her right then and there. NOW, you have to fend her off to keep her from constantly trying to bathe you. That did more than anything else to tame her down. She is a dream on the milk stand, never causes a fuss.

This will be the fourth wild goat that this has worked on here.

BUT, you can't do this if you leave even ONE kid on her. Even if you just leave a single buckling on her, she will bond to the buckling, and she won't bond to you fully.

If you want her to be a good milker in the future, and she most certainly CAN be, I would pull anything she has at birth and bottle feed, while only letting her bond to you as her kid.

And yes, as OBF has said, she WILL bawl at you because you aren't in the barn laying down where she told you too. LOL

rileyjo · #17 03/25/12, 07:38 AM

I have a FF who is currently on day 152. I realized about a week ago that I needed to help her get over her fear of being touched. I penned her with another gal who is so friendly she's annoying. They both get treats every day and the fraidycat is very curious. I have a collar on her now and she is learning to get her grain at the milk stand. We're not quite On the milk stand yet, but I'm sure she'll get there eventually.

Yesterday, I noticed she is dripping milk. I had a helper snag her and she let me milk her out a bit. Afterwards, we let her go and she was content to lean into us and let us scritch her. She's huge and I'm ready to poke her with a giant pin but I think she's waiting to have those babies on Monday night when it's supposed to be in the teens.

It only took a week to get her calmed right down. Her favourite treat is orange slices.

RedSonja · #18 03/25/12, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

I had to laugh.

I was just telling my hubby a couple of hours ago that people don't realize that dairy goats are the MOST high maintenance animal on the farm.

Ain't that the truth. We bought our little farm so I could have horses again. And dairy goats because I loved them as a child. My poor horses barely get brushed or touched because all my available time and energy is spent on goat care.

-Sonja

RedSonja · #19 03/25/12, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shanzone2001

Can I just leave them with her for a day or two to get colostrum and then pull them and bottle feed them with milk from my other doe?

If you have the time, I'd start today, just hanging out around her. If you can get her in a stall or small pen, take a chair and a book and lots of treats. Raisins, animal crackers, bread, whatever you have that a goat might like. Let her be the one to come to you then give her a treat. If you have a clicker, you could try clicker training her to come to you for a treat, letting you touch her, etc.

-Sonja

chamoisee · #20 03/25/12, 01:01 PM

Alice has good advice.

I wouldn't wait until she kids. I'd corner her today in a small pen or at the hay/grain feeder, and get her onto the milk stand come hell or high water. If she doesn't have a collar on, she should get one, preferably something sturdy at least for now, such as a nylon dog collar. I would put her on the milking stand (hopefully it's against a barn wall so she can't intentionally fall of the opposite side of it) and just sit on the stand and lean against her, pressing her firmly and gently against the barn wall until she calms down. Then give her a little grain and a little nice hay or alfalfa pellets after that and talk to her quietly. No matter how idiotic she acts, try not to yell or lose your temper and do NOT give up or give in. Run your hands firmly (with moderately deep pressure, sort of like massage strokes) from her lower neck area to her hips, across her shoulder flank area, her belly, then from her shoulder to front leg down to the hoof, and from her ribs to hip to thigh to lower leg, until she isn't having a fit when you do this. If she fights, just stroke a little more firmly and do not stop or pause. She needs to know that no matter what she does, she cannot shake you off like a fly, even for a moment.

When she has resigned herself to this, alter the direction of the strokes so that the lower rib cage and belly and inner thigh gets touched, and part of the udder....and the back to hip to thigh area should rotate around the back of the thigh to encompass part of the rear udder. In this way, you can get her accustomed to having her udder handled. It is work and it takes a long time. Do not let her out of the stand until YOU are done, but at the same time, it is also best not to leave her frantic with boredom (as opposed to nerves) either. Give her a little more grain just before you let her out and talk to her quietly, and make the release from the stand seem like a sort of non-event (as opposed to her perceiving it as a miraculous escape). I would do this at least twice a day, every day.

And....I'd leave the buck kids if she has them, on her....but that's just me. I don't like to butcher bottle babies.