goat's coat

dunroven · #1 03/13/12, 06:47 PM

I have a question here about my buck's coat. He is a 4 year old big buck. He has the stiffest, roughest coat I have ever felt. It is not soft like the ones I see on these ads for these big bucks. I'm wondering if I have a mineral problem or what would be going on with him. I know he needs washed and yes, he probably still has some winter coat, since its still early spring, but his coat is stiff like this all the time.

My buck is an grandson of RRD Gauge P529. I have not seen a buck look like this so I was just a bit concerned. I know this sounds dumb, but do they shave off their coat to make them look that smooth?

Forgive my ignorance on that. I don't do shows so I don't know.

This is a pretty nice buck. He has Remington, Gauge, MS M27, Eggsorcist, Eggs Paulina, Eggstra Brassy on dad's side and Tatonka on mom's side, all of which are ennobled.

Again, forgive my ignorance, but my other bucks haven't been this rough, just wondering why this buck is.

Valorie

**mygoat** · #2 03/13/12, 07:29 PM

Hard to say without knowing what youre talking about. We don't have a picture of your buck or any idea what pictures you've been looking at in comparison.

Yes, most goats (I'm assuming you have boers by the reg. names) are shaved pre-show, and for most pictures I've seen. OR the pics are taken in their sleek shiny summer coats.

Two reasons why a coat is abnormally rough. One is minerals - goats need many minerals that effect haircoat - and if haircoat is effected as a sign of deficiency, you may have other underlying problems too. Copper and Zinc come to mind.

A free choice, high quality LOOSE mineral is essential. I use Sweetlix meatmaker or Sweetlix magnamilk. Others have great success with Cargil Right Now Onyx, or whatever name Purina sells their goat mineral under.

If your soils are copper deficient, copper bolusing your herd 2x per year may also help. Usually the mineral levels and type of copper in any kind of loose or block minerals are inadequate or difficult to absorb.

And secondly, a wormy animal is often noted of having a rough coat and bad shed-out in spring.

dunroven · #3 03/13/12, 08:33 PM

My camera batteries quit me just yesterday. I'm going tomorrow to get more, had to work today, so i couldn't.

We can't get loose minerals here. I have tried all around us and no one carries them. We have to get that sheep and goat mineral block and that's all they carry. I hate it. I can get it, but in order to do that I have to either drive to Sioux City, which is about 1-1/2 hours away, OR I can special it order it..........if i'll order 25 bags. Yeah, right, for 10 goats. I don't think so. Plus I couldn't afford that many anyway, and none of my friends around here raise goats. They think I'm crazy! LOL

It could be copper though. How do you guys do the copper boluses, or is there something I can get that he would just snatch up and eat. We are talking about a big goat and he blacked my eye last year. I'm not afraid of him, but I don't want to try to wrestle him either. His beard is NOT long enough to hardly get ahold of, although it looks like it will be longer this year than it was the last.

The pictures I'm referring to are any of the show goat web sites where they show all these fantastic looking creatures that are so big and muscled. My buck is big like that and muscled, but you can't see it with all this stiff hair.

Worms are not the problem cause I have them on a worming program. Just did that as a matter of fact. I use the Ivermectin, so far that has worked very well here.

Thanks for the help!

Valorie

Kits&Kids · #4 03/13/12, 08:50 PM

My bucks hair is a lot thicker than the does so they never look as smooth.
If you clip him then wait 2 weeks your pics should look just as good.I also feed the trace mineral blocks. They are moist inside and break easily with a hammer.my 10 adult goats eat 1 every 3 weeks. After they are broke open they crumble easily.

Backfourty,MI. · #5 03/13/12, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kits&Kids

My bucks hair is a lot thicker than the does so they never look as smooth.
If you clip him then wait 2 weeks your pics should look just as good.I also feed the trace mineral blocks. They are moist inside and break easily with a hammer.my 10 adult goats eat 1 every 3 weeks. After they are broke open they crumble easily.

Do you also feed a loose mineral high in copper content? Normally the blocks don't have enough copper in them for goats.

dunroven · #6 03/13/12, 09:25 PM

But as I said, the loose minerals are not readily available to me. I only have 1 day a week to shop and I have to drive 25 miles in order to grocery shop anyway. Our grocery store closed in February, so we are forced to drive that far for ourselves, which by the time I shop, and I can only go once every 2 weeks because that's when my paychecks come in, and I shop for the full 2 weeks for critters and my hubby and I, I would have no time to head to Sioux City, and again, I'm not ordering 25 bags of loose minerals for 10 goats.

So, how can I get more copper to my goats, in my situation? If that will help him, I'll do it, and I'll also clip him in a couple of months, after I'm sure it has warmed up enough.

Thanks!

Oh, hey, I just remembered, I got new goat feed this time. It is Noble Goat Grower from Purina. It shows the following (if my old eyes can read this)

Active Drug Ingredient Decoquinate 0.0015% (6.8 mg/lb).
Crude Protein 16.00%
Crude Fat 2.00%
Crude Fiber 16%
Calcium 0.80%
Phosphorus 0.50%
Salt (NaC1) (min) 0.40%
Salt (NaC1) (max) 0.80%
Sodium (Na) (min) 0.10%
Sodium (Na) (max) 0.40%
Copper (Cu) (min) 22 ppm
Copper (Cu) (max) 27 ppm
Selenium (Se) (min) 0.3 ppm
Vitamin A (min) 5000 IU/lb

Ingredients: Processed Grain By-Products, Roughage Products, Grain Products, Plant Protein Products, Molasses Products, Forage Products, Calcium Carbonate, Ammmonium Chloride, Salt, Calcium Lignin Sufonate, Iron Oxide, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin A supplement, Vitamin D3 supplement, Cobalt Carbonate, Manganese Sulfate, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Chloride, Sodium Selenite. RUMINENT MEAT AND BONE MEAL FREE.

Did I do good with this?

Manchamom · #7 03/13/12, 11:40 PM

Can you get loose minerals made for horses, cattle, or deer? Any of them of any quality would be much better then a sheep/goat block.

dunroven · #8 03/14/12, 12:12 AM

Everyone around here only feeds blocks. We have big herds of cattle here and they just either have it already in their feed or drop those big round blue containers of minerals around their land. And no one that I know of uses horse minerals at all, just salt blocks.

At least in this area. I will do more checking on that. I haven't looked at all the stores for the horse minerals, but I don't think they do have them.

I'll find out on Saturday.

So tell me how I do copper, or is this feed getting enough of it?

Creamers · #9 03/14/12, 12:37 AM

Quote:

sheep and goat mineral block

This is your problem - goats cannot survive without copper and a block made for sheep will not have copper and sheep cannot have copper.

Your buck almost certainly needs copper and selenium -

You need to order copper boluses for your whole herd - talk to Cannon Farms on here - she sells them - you also need BO-SE from your vet. . .

Creamers · #10 03/14/12, 12:37 AM

give me your town and I'll see if I can locate a Cargill dealer in the area

dunroven · #11 03/14/12, 08:23 AM

Okay, so does the feed above NOT provide copper and selenium? I checked for cargill in our area. These feeds are sold under Nutrena and Purina. Those are the feeds that I have been getting, BUT they have a recall on some of the feed that is like listed above because they were not labeled properly. Anyway, my town is odebolt, Iowa, but as stated before, they show places for their feed in Ida Grove, Sac City and Lake View. None of those places sells loose minerals. I know because I shop at Sac City and Lake View Bomgaars for my feed and other farm items and Lake View is my vet and he does not handle anything at all for goats. He does vet care for the goats, but in his own words,...............reluctantly he treats goats because he knows nothing about them. So we're still back to square 1.

dunroven · #12 03/14/12, 08:27 AM

I just went back and searched all of the variables, 20, 40, 60, 80 and 100 miles and the only places that sell under their brand is Bomgaars, and my vet, and there are only about 5 of those in that area. Again, I have shopped at all of them, and none of them carry these loose minerals. And the above feed is what they sell for goats although they are starting to get in some Nutrena brands. I did look over the rabbit food from Nutrena and even bought a couple of bags, and compared tags I have here at home. Same stuff as the cheaper brand, so I buy the cheaper store brand (on rabbit food).

**mygoat** · #13 03/14/12, 09:25 AM

Purina sells a loose goat mineral. Usually you don't have to buy in bulk from a place - just ask them to get in the purina goat mineral and they can carry in a few bags with other purina products.

mpete · #14 03/14/12, 09:32 AM

Question for everyone: Can dunroven take a "block" and break it up? Because as far as I understand the issue with blocks is that the goat can not physically "lick" enough to get what it needs, so theoretically can it be busted up?

mammabooh · #15 03/14/12, 09:37 AM

I contacted the Cargill folks when I was trying to locate the Right Now Onyx minerals. They gave me the location of the closest store that sells their brand. I called the store and asked them to order a bag of the stuff for me. They did, and I had it within a couple of weeks. I just called them again and they are ordering another bag for me. It's been a year since they ordered the last bag. As far as I know, I'm the only one in the area who uses the stuff and they haven't given me any grief about ordering it. In fact, they were very pleasant and accommodating.

Maybe the person you talked to that told you that you would have to order 25 bags was mis-informed.

Backfourty,MI. · #16 03/14/12, 09:38 AM

Mygoat is right, Purina makes a goat mineral that has I believe 1750 ppm's of copper in it. The block your feeding doesn't have enough copper in it by far for what your goats require.

If you deal with a certain store all the time & they carry purina products I wouldn't think it should be a problem for them to order the mineral for you. Most likely there are other folks in the area that would be glad they carry it as well.

I'm in about the same boat as you as far as distance to the nearest big town we shop & do most of our buying in & it's almost 50 miles one way. I too only go there about every 2 weeks & do everything in 1 day. I do have a mom & pop type feed store & a mill that are both closer & 1 will order anything they can for me while the other won't.
Doesn't hurt to ask the stores you shop at to order some for you, all they can do is say no.
Most of the goat minerals except Manna pro come in 25 pound bags so it will last a long time.
Or a cattle mineral high in copper would be better than the blocks.

dunroven · #17 03/14/12, 11:42 AM

Already asked the managers, and this is why I have to order such a large amount, cause no one else wants it and they won't special order it just for me. See I was trying to do that with rabbit feed before, I wanted a ton, and I had one store that would do it and then they finally told me it just wasn't worth it to them, so they wouldn't do it anymore.

They refuse to order just 1 bag of any kind of thing around here. The folks are stubborn like that. My dad used to say you could tell when you were heading out of the state. Folks in southern Iowa would wave to you, folks in northern Iowa would finger you. Well I haven't found it quite that bad, but if you have ever see the Music Man, they just about nail it on the head.

I love my state, but they don't want you rocking the boat! LOL

I am going to Des Moines on Saturday. I think I'll see if I can get a couple of bags of loose minerals while I'm there.

So what do I need to look for in terms of the amounts of copper and selenium and iodine in these minerals, and is there anything else that it REALLY should include? If I can find it while I'm there, I'll buy a couple of bags and that might last me for a while.

Thanks for all the help folks!

Valorie

mammabooh · #18 03/14/12, 01:19 PM

I wonder if you could contact Cargill directly and tell them about your troubles. Maybe they'll just send it with your name on it to one of their stores.

**mygoat** · #19 03/14/12, 01:58 PM

The problem with low-volume purchases is that the company supplying them has to ship them in. However, with all other suppliers I worked with around here, they are able to add on a product of the same brand on to any order -because they already have a shipment coming. For example, my mill sells Sweetlix products. I asked them to get Magnamilk mineral, and they ordered 3 bags for me. If they already use a brand, it SHOULD be easy to get...

Trouble with blocks is more than the fact that they aren't free-flowing. Another problem is that the salt content is SO high that the animals stop eating it before they get their 'true' requirement of minerals because animals ONLY eat it to get necessary salt. Once the salt requirement is filled, they stop drinking.

Backfourty,MI. · #20 03/14/12, 02:41 PM

I would look for a loose mineral with at least 1600-1700 ppm's of copper or higher if you can when in Des Moines. The other minerals should be appropriate for the amount of copper in the mineral. I'd look by goat & cattle products. For only 10 goats a 25 or 50 pound bag will last you quite a long time.