Grain Free Stock

[TroutRiver]

Anyone know of anybody in the US who is breeding REGISTERED dairy goats specifically for grain free milk production (not 100% grass fed, but grain free... not the same thing, I know )?

[Alice In TX/MO]

I think the two ideas are at odds with one another for commercial purposes. If you have a dairy, you want production, so you feed concentrates to pump up the volume. (haha)

If you are a homestead producer, you want a combination of long term health PLUS volume, so you feed some concentrates, too.

THAT SAID.... the one breeder I know who comes closest to this is Yarrow (Susie) at Ages Ago Acres Nubians. She's doing some VERY interesting things with her homestead dairy goat breeding program.
http://www.agesagoacresnubians.com/

[TroutRiver]

Thanks!

I'm thinking the profitability of a grain free herd would be in breeding stock rather than milk production, I definitely understand that grain free means less milk, so for commercial milk production it doesn't make a lot of sense. However, I also think it's got to be possible, with the right genetics, to have a grain free herd that doesn't have significantly lower than average milk production.

Just like with cows, you can't just take any dairy cow and cut grain out of its diet and expect it to not lose body condition and drop in milk production. But with the right management and the right genetics, over the course of several generations, some farmers have bred cows that are making very reasonable milk yields without any grain. I would like to think goats have the potential to be similar, aside from the nutritional difference of needing more roughage than cows. Of course, it's just as much about pasture management and rotation as it is about the animals, but still, it's got to be possible...?

Edit to add: That said, it's hard to buy in genetics for grain free, if there aren't any! It's one thing to find a successful grass fed jersey herd and breed your cow to a bull from them, for heifers that are more efficient at processing grass and need less grain. But I don't think those herds exist in the goat world... at least not that I'm aware...

[Jim S.]

My FIL was a dairyman. He started the traditional way, growing and storing corn and feeding his cow herd grain. He later was one of the first dairy farmers to "throw away my plow," as he said it. Other dairymen were aghast, predicting his doom. "Your rolling average will go down!" they said. "Production is going to drop! How can you make any money if your production drops?"

My FIL always used to chuckle as he told this, because once he converted to grass silage (cut by one of the first mower-conditioners made and stored in one of the first pit silos in his state) and pasture, his poundage did indeed go down. He used the same Golden Guernsey herd he had fed grains, so nothing changed cow-wise; he just switched to all-grass and quit plowing and growing in favor of mowing.

He would tell this story to me, while chuckling the whole time, to make a point: production does not equal profit.

"The big companies, they have the American farmer brainwashed," he would usually conclude. "The farmer has been duped into thinking producing more and more is the goal. It is NOT! The goal is to produce at the level where your input costs are best controlled. I did produce less milk, but when I got that milk check, a lot more of it was MINE!" He also enjoyed the comparative ease of twice a year mowing as his sole activity to produce "feedstuffs."

Then he would go on to talk about the university professors who teach so many concepts of maximizing ag production. "Who is paying for their research?" he would say. "The big companies, that's who! Why do they want people to focus only on more and more production and not on what it costs to produce? Because it makes THEM money!" He would chuckle and chuckle as he went along telling this story. My FIL died a millionaire, and he made it all from farming.

Yes, it is possible to have a grass-only dairy herd of goats. This is how it is done overseas, where poor people do not have the cash to supplement feed, and they seem to get their fair share of milk. There are lots of such herds here in the South.

In fact, there is plenty of research to show that grain supplementation is not good for the animal, be it goat or cow. In the case of a goat in its natural environment, coming across grain would be a very rare treat indeed, and that is why they have so much space in their gut dedicated to digesting cellulose, which is not that much present in grains. The big digestive tract is there for browse and grass, not grain.

Will they produce less? Yes. Will the cost of production be lower than the milk loss? Well, grass and browse are pretty darned cheap to grow.

Now this post will fall on many deaf ears here, and some will rise to up contest it. I'm just posting it for those few who might see the kernel of an idea in it.

[Alice In TX/MO]

I am not sure I understand the separation of the ideas of breeding stock and milk production. You don't raise milk goats just as breeding stock. You select for production, good udders and teats, etc. If they don't produce milk, they *aren't* breeding stock that you want.

Cows make reasonable amounts of milk just naturally.

If a dairy goat isn't going to make enough for me to spend time out there twice a day milking her out, she's not staying!

You might want to talk to Yarrow. She's been studying the whole feed issue.

[Hollowdweller]

There was an organic dairy here where I live that because of the cost of organic grain mainly fed their does organic alfalfa and then they got maybe a cup of organic corn and oats. However their goats were not registered.

I may be wrong but I believe Dan Drake who raises registered saanens feeds mostly alfalfa and a small amount of grain.


You could ask him for sure. This is his web site:

http://www.drakefamilyfarms.com/

[Wags]

Good genetics and careful, knowledgeable management can equal good production in goats that do not receive grain.

I do not give my goats grain and their production is above average. However, I have found that you can not just switch a doe that is used to receiving grain and get the same production. They need well developed rumens so they need to be grain free from birth.

[Jim S.]

Originally Posted by Wags

Good genetics and careful, knowledgeable management can equal good production in goats that do not receive grain.

I do not give my goats grain and their production is above average. However, I have found that you can not just switch a doe that is used to receiving grain and get the same production. They need well developed rumens so they need to be grain free from birth.

Not a dairy goat guy, but I have taken many a Boer and converted them from a comfy grain and alfalfa-fed pet life to a pasture setting. It is even easier to see which goats have the necessary equipment in slender dairy goats than in meat goats, so it should be no problem to pick a good grass herd out of any registered stock you see, no matter what they are eating at present. You can do the same with beef or dairy cows.

[Hollowdweller]

In general the lower the production the less grain you have to feed.

[TroutRiver]

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

I am not sure I understand the separation of the ideas of breeding stock and milk production. You don't raise milk goats just as breeding stock. You select for production, good udders and teats, etc. If they don't produce milk, they *aren't* breeding stock that you want.

Cows make reasonable amounts of milk just naturally.

If a dairy goat isn't going to make enough for me to spend time out there twice a day milking her out, she's not staying!

You might want to talk to Yarrow. She's been studying the whole feed issue.

I should have spoken more carefully

I guess what I was trying to say is that you might not compete with the country's top producers in milk volume, but perhaps a grain free animal would have better milk components and still give an average and respectable volume of milk. I am not talking about milking goats that are giving 4 pounds of milk per day, just because they are grain free. I wouldn't do that, either. You would still select for good udders and teats, but over the course of several generations you would also select for those that keep good body condition and produce the best and most milk without grain.

To compare to cow dairy herds again (because that's what I'm familiar with when it comes to grain free milk production) there are some grain free jersey herds that are making 30-35lb per cow per day on average, which is respectable for jerseys but not outstandingly high. They focus on quality of milk instead of quantity, and they get a higher price for their milk than conventional grain fed herds. On the other hand, there are grain free jersey herds that are only making 15 pounds of milk per cow per day average, and are likely not breaking even.

A loss in volume of milk has to mean an equal or greater gain in components and milk quality, otherwise you are right, it doesn't make much sense. I'm also not convinced that the loss in milk volume would necessarily be significant enough to make it unprofitable (if you have the right genetics and the right management), but I could be wrong, I have never tried this

I guess it really boils down to the fact that the more research I do, the less I trust the grain companies. And growing, harvesting and storing my own grain just isn't realistic, at least not in the foreseeable future. There is also a growing demand for grain free milk in this area, and no one local is doing it yet.

I will talk to Yarrow

[Alice In TX/MO]

I agree with you that the grain business (Monsanto) is getting more frightening by the day. My husband and I no longer eat grains. I can see here a logical step would be not feeding it to the animals that provide us milk, either.

Lots of things to think about and experiment with!!

Edited to add:
Aren't you going to have to start with genetically high production animals? Saanens?