Herbal Wormers?

FeminineFarmgir · #1 01/26/12, 10:14 AM

I've always used Valbazen and Cydectin wormer for my alpine/lamancha dairy herd, but recently the "herbal wormer" and "golden blend rumatel goat dewormer" from Hoeggers has caught my interest.

Have any of you used it and with what success?

Thank you!
Blessings,
Jenna

Bearfootfarm · #2 01/26/12, 11:57 AM

I've never seen any scientific evidence that herbals work at all

KrisD · #3 01/26/12, 12:21 PM

I use the herbal wormer from FiasCo Farm. I did not do this but the test would be to do a fecal now put them on the wormer for a few months and do another fecal. I do fecals but I didn't do a before and after just an after. My fecals done at my vet are negative. The goats also LOVE them!

ThePigeonKid · #4 01/26/12, 12:43 PM

I have used Hoegger’s herbal wormer; it works great when they are not pregnant.

My goats are pregnant, so I am going to use this: http://www.fiascofarm.com/herbs/moll...worm-formula-2

southerngurl · #5 01/26/12, 01:35 PM

I've been using Fir Meadow's herbal wormers. I would use it before the others since she uses it herself on her excellent herd of lamanchas and uses NO chemicals whatsoever in her herd. She also lives in a wet environment.

steff bugielski · #6 01/26/12, 01:39 PM

I have used Molly's herbal Wormer for about 3 years now.

I did do fecals in the beginning but I have not done any in 2 years.

My goats milk terrific, have dark pink eyelids, shiny coats and 6 out of 7 have had triplets this year.
I follow the directions that come with the wormer and I have been extremely pleased.
I did have a doe that did not respond to them so I gave her the chemical wormer. She was about 10 years old and has since died.Nothing to do with wormers LOL.

I would suggest that you try them. I gave every one the normal dosage of chemical wormer then started on the herbs. I have never regretted the switch. I love being able to tell my customers that my goats get no anti-biotics, hormones or chemicals of any kind.

Patrick · #7 01/26/12, 04:44 PM

It's all wonderful to rely on herbal stuff, magic potions and all, even taking anecdotal evidence from others that they work. Sure, it is great to be able to tell someone that your goats get no "chemicals". You can consult eyelids, coats, the Oiji board or your favorite psychic too, but without evidence that they work, I'd be sceptical. The time to continue doing fecal checks is especially after you've switched to a nontraditional wormer. That is not the time to stop looking for parasites. Some animals may appear to do well for long periods of time, and then crash without warning, when a large parasite burden builds up. The time to find out that the unproven concoctions did not work, is not when you have a kid that crashes, in the middle of the night, or when your vet is otherwise not quickly available.

KrisD · #8 01/26/12, 05:36 PM

Patrick,
I'm pretty sure I did tell her to do fecals before and after. Please don't make fun us that try and use natural methods. My fecals are done by the vet so yes I trust him! I think your tone was uncalled for, the op asked if we had tried them and we gave honest answers. Please play nice.

**mygoat** · #9 01/26/12, 05:59 PM

I agree with Patrick. I'm sorry, but I think it's great that someone stepped in with a skeptical view. So far, I have NOT been convinced about any herbal treatments people claim work. NO scientific research, it's all anecdotal and usually the 'proof' comes from people with little/no knowledge on how diseases work, nutrition, etc. Not to mention alot of the hooplah herbalists will tell you as 'fact' on health, diagnosis... I'm sorry but if your herbal treatment works 'quickly' in a week and a half, it's probably because the animal is getting over the disease on it's own...

Long ago,my goats hated the Hoegger herbal wormer. I quit using it before it was a reasonable time to do an 'after' fecal ecam. It was extremely tedious to give on a weekly basis. A friend's herd is 'all natural' and I've never once been convinced that 'natural' treatments are in any way better than chemical treatments... usually they're more expensive, take longer to be effective, require intense labor because of multiple large doses and are not readily accepted by the animals (well, neither are many shots/drenches but at least I have to do them less often than herbal treatments).

I know many people who do 'herbal' or completely 'all natural'. Without going into too much detail, I am the complete opposite of convinced that it is better in any sense of the word, than modern management.

Someone recently was trying to tell me that iridology was something that herbalists/naturalists use Now, I know there are some diseases that can be diagnosed with eye symptoms. BUT, IRIDOLOGY is a freakin' pseudoscience.

Pony · #10 01/26/12, 06:19 PM

If someone wants to go to the trouble of using herbal wormers, I think that's fine and it's a matter of personal choice.

Equating folks who do with those who use somewhat suspect methods of diagnosis, though, is really not helpful or nice.

mpete · #11 01/26/12, 06:28 PM

Whatever wormer you use, do a follow up fecal to make sure it worked.

mpete · #12 01/26/12, 06:31 PM

Also.... if a goat is not exposed to the worm, then it will not get it. Worms are passed by grazing in fields that are infected. If you rotate pastures then exposure is reduced

Patrick · #13 01/26/12, 06:45 PM

Quote:

I did do fecals in the beginning but I have not done any in 2 years.

My post was mostly in reference to the above statement, and not to anyone personally, just so no one takes offense, I hope. I'm just confused as to how one could say that switching to a herbal, or any different wormer, can work, when the method used to test the effectiveness is no longer used. One reason could be that the proponent of the new wormer does not want to know. No one can say for sure that it isn't working if there is no fecal test to prove it, one could say. There could be other reasons. Not doing a fecal is not a suspect method of diagnosis, it is no diagnosis. Is that not true? Checking skin and coat or eyelids are unreliable methods of diagnosis. Is that better? All IMO.

And no, I do not believe that herbal or homeopathic remedies work, IMO. I hope that doesn't offend anyone, IMO.

KrisD · #14 01/26/12, 06:51 PM

I have no issues with people being skeptical but comparing me giving an herbal wormer and having fecals done at my vet to a psychic is uncalled for. In my first post I specifically said to do before and after fecals. Just because you aren't familiar with something or isn't supported by pharmaceutical companies does not mean it doesn't work. Chinese medicine has been around for thousands of years, I personally do acupuncture and love it. I've had it done on my dog with spondylitis and it was like a miracle.
Before the pharmaceuticals there were herbs.
I don't see how it is labor intensive at all, I can put them in the milk stand and fight them to take ivermectin or I can offer a herbal dosage ball that they willingly take and gobble down. We have give Corid every 21 days for a week I do the same with the dosage ball. Millions of people and thousands of years behind it.

Patrick · #15 01/26/12, 07:06 PM

Herbal remedies are not proven to work, IMO.
Psychics are not proven to work, IMO. That's my comparison. Agree or not, but why are people so sensitive about a differing opinion?
Acupuncture does work, IMO. It's completely different subject. Or did something I wrote indicate that I offended acupuncturists too?

Backfourty,MI. · #16 01/26/12, 07:31 PM

I don't think folks here are sensitive to different opinions, that's what a public forum is for, we get ideas, ask for opinions, etc. But we also make friends here, share funny stories, pictures of our kids(human & otherwise), etc.

There are ways to get your point across & still be nice about it. I know it's hard to tell someone's attitude or tone over a computor screen but I have to say if we could see or hear you I'm not sure any of us would have any trouble then.
There are lots of folks here I don't agree with & I'm sure they feel the same but I am never rude to anyone & always try to be nice. I understand we are all going to see thing differently. You don't need to be smart alecky in your posts, we all get it!

ThePigeonKid · #17 01/26/12, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backfourty,MI.

I don't think folks here are sensitive to different opinions, that's what a public forum is for, we get ideas, ask for opinions, ideas, etc. But we also make friends here, share funny stories, pictures of our kids(human & otherwise), etc.

There are ways to get your point across & still be nice about it. I know it's hard to tell someone's attitude or tone over a computor screen but I have to say if we could see or hear you I'm not sure any of us would have any trouble then.
There are lots of folks here I don't agree with & I'm sure they feel the same but I am never rude to anyone & always try to be nice. I understand we are all going to see thing differently. You don't need to be smart alecky in your posts, we all get it!

X2

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/herbalwormer.htm

ThePigeonKid · #18 01/26/12, 07:40 PM

http://hoeggergoatsupply.com/info/report.shtml

Backfourty,MI. · #19 01/26/12, 07:40 PM

ThePigeonKid, I don't understand why you are quoting my post? My post was directed at Patrick & trying to explain to him why were all here & to play nice!

txplowgirl · #20 01/26/12, 07:46 PM

I was taught that for a horse or a cow about 1 tablespoon of Red Man tobacco once a month so I would say maybe a 3rd of that?

I don't have any experience with goats so take this how you will.

I know our horses growing up and all the horses i've had through the years never had worms of any kind. Maybe it would help with goats. Don't know, just my opinion and what I was taught.