Still considering what to get

[CircleStarRanch]

I haven't posted a question in a long while. We are still considering options and choices for what to get. It is just my wife and I (human kids not living with us). We are moving towards self-suffiency and more chemical-free living. Since eliminating most chemical-laden foods from our diet, I have dropped nearly 50 pounds and 4 pants sizes, and all my precription meds (for GERD, Type II Diabeties, & High Blood Pressure). We still rely on store-bought meat, eggs, & dairy products. Our own meat production is in the planning stages yet and we have the egg situation accounted for. That being said, we need to produce just enough milk for the two of us. We want enough milk to cook with and to make butter, cheese, & yogurt.

Knowing that goats should not be alone we originally had settled on getting 2 Nigerians, figuring they would provide us with the needed quantity. But then we had to opportunity to visit some and decided that their teat size would make it difficult for us to milk.

So now we are looking at option #2. Get a standard sized milker and get a wether as a stall/play mate. I have seen many, almost conflicting, comparisons on different breeds' milk production & milkfat percentages. We are now considering getting a registered Nubian milker and wether from a local breeder. We can make arrangements for breeding thru them.

So a question for all you "experts": Based on our milk needs, would one Nubian with its moderate milk production and high milkfat work for us? Or in your experience, would a different breed be better for us?

Thanks in advance,
-Dutch

[saanengirl]

How much milk volume are you wanting? I really think that two does are better since you can breed them on different schedules and have milk year round. It takes a fair amount of milk to make cheese and butter since you are draining a lot of whey/buttermilk. Yogurt doesn't take as much milk as the others since the whey mostly stays in the product.

If you get Nubians you need to pay attention to their milk records. Some Nubians just don't have persistant lactations and will drop production after a few months of lactation. You might consider LaManchas which tend to be more consistent producers and still produce a fair amount of milk solids or even Saanens or Alpines which produce a higher amount of milk so the actual amount of milk solids produced will be similar or higher than the Nubian.

For the most accurate comparison look at ADGA's 2010 breed averages for production here.

[saanengirl]

You might find this chart interesting:

[April]

I have Nubians and I can tell you what happens at our house.

I get just under 3/4 of a gallon a day from my lowest producing girl. A gallon of milk makes around a pound of cheese. You can do the math there on how much grocery store milk and cheese you consume. If you make more cheese you can have more milking goats!

I've not been able to get enough cream skimmed to make butter before the milk starts tasting a bit funky. What cream does separate is phenomenally, out of this world delicious, though. I've thought about freezing it and then thawing it for butter when I get enough, but a.) I don't know if that would work and b.) it never makes it to the freezer. It's that good. If I let the milk jars sit in the fridge for a while I end up with a LOT of cream - as in half the jar's worth. But by the time it separates that far, it's past the point of consumption. A cream separator would probably help with that, but I don't have any desire to clean it every day. The slow cream separation isn't a Nubian thing, though - it's a goat thing. I might feel differently about cleaning the separator if I didn't have a Jersey cow. Freezing the cream may well be an option - I'm not sure. I usually get about an inch of cream on the top of a half gallon jar in a couple of days.


Your mileage may vary, of course, but I love the Nubians for milking. They are loud, though!

[southerngurl]

The different breeds don't really vary enough as far as home production, to not just go with what you like. Nubians do tend to sell best, so that is something to keep in mind. I would get two does in milk. If you're feeding and housing a whether, you might as well feed and house a productive animal. Something could happen to your milker or something and then you have no milk. Plus there will be a dry time so having them overlap you are never without milk. Get chickens to feed extra milk and whey too (you're never going to have exactly as much milk as you want, it's going to be too much or too little, I'd rather have too much- milk and whey are high calcium and high protein feeds, great for chickens). Also, if you have dogs/cats to feed, some of the milk can go to that. Don't forget what the kids are goign to be eating! For that first 3-5 months of lactation, they will be eating the milk too unless you sell them as bottle babies.

Their are good and poor milkers among every breed, some averaging better than others. But you can get good milkers from any breed. Get some from a herd with a history of longer lactations. Often it's harder to get long production, rather than getting a high peak of milk, particulary in the nubians.

Yes, I think nubians would do just fine so long as you get some that are decent producers. They and Lamanchas have the best tasting milk of the standards (just IMO, don't flame me!). Also, nubians and lamanchas will generally have better carcasses, so any excess bucks will give you more milk than some of the more refined breeds.

[hiddensprings]

I would agree wtih Saanengirl that two nubians, where you could breed at different times would give you milk year around. Our human children are grown too so it is just hubby and I. I have a small herd of nubians but two girls gives us all of the milk (and milk products) the two of us can use. And, like Saanengirl said, look for strong milking lines. Good luck! And have fun....I love my girls.

[saanengirl]

Saleability of the breeds depends on locations. In Georgia, Nubians are harder to sell and bring much lower prices than Saanens. It really depends on your location.

I used to have a couple of Nubians and didn't find any difference between the flavor of their milk and the milk of my Saanens. There are inter-breed differences in milk fat as well. The average milk fat on my Saanens is just over 3%, but I have one doe that averages 4.5% in BF and has a very persistant lactation but doesn't peak as high as the other does.

[wolffeathers]

Get two standard dairy does, that way you can stagger their schedules and have milk always. A whether wouldn't really have a "job" on a homestead. Might as well fill that second slot with something that will provide a return for it's feed and space.

Don't worry about "excess", if you don't use it, it can always go to chickens, dogs, pigs, etc.

[mpete]

Agreed. 2 nubian does. Stagger the breedings (about 4 months) so you always have one in milk, you can use buck kids for meat. The milk you don't use, feed it to your chickens, pigs or try canning it! I feed it to my chickens, and will alternate a pig and a calf to raise for meat.

["SPIKE"]

Congratulations on becoming healthier (more healthy?)

Yes to the 2 nubian does, especially since you have breeding taken care of locally. This will also give you meat options. You can make your own wethers later. If you do decide to get a wether, it can be a smaller breed. Cost will be less to maintain.

SPIKE

[Ellie Mae]

I am far from an expert, but once I started making cheese I couldn't get enough milk! There is just the two of us...
We started out with 5 Nigerians, then wanted more volume, so bought 5 Alpines,then wanted a higher butterfat, so we bought 2 Nubians, lol

I skim the cream and freeze it, but have never saved it for butter making, just don't get enough cream quick enough and find other uses for it.

Folks say goats are addictive, just wait till you start making cheese!

We love our Nigerians, they are our favorite breed overall for personality and ease of handling, the Nubians are about to make me crazy with their non-stop vocalizing, and our Alpines are super smart, but tend to be bullies to the other goats.
All breeds have their pro's & con's, but you will find the breed that fits your personality and needs.

I still regret selling our Saanen/Nubian X, her milk was the best I have ever tasted and she gave alot of milk!

[Alice In TX/MO]

I agree with two does, no matter which breed you want/like. Breed one at the first fall heat cycle, the other in December, and you'll have milk all year round!

Cheesemaking is WONDERFUL!!

[LFRJ]

We have Kinders (a breed which is derived from nubian/pygmy cross). She is smaller, but not petite! and not dainty such as the Nigerians. We are fortunate that she comes from terrific milking lines and has a beautiful udder/teat structure so milking is not a problem. She is also prolific to the point that at 20 months, we still get over 1lb per milking (1 x daily), which is more than ample for the two of us. Her milk has enough butter fat so that I have indeed made butter, though it does not taste quite the same, however if you are intending for butter you will likely need a breed which has the higher butter fat, i.e. Nubian.

Cheese is a different matter. I am not good at making it. I have conquered the soft cheese, and yogurt is a snap, but I can't seem to make mozz worth a darn. The harder cheeses require an aging unit that maintains specific temp and humidity, which i do not have, so the extra milk we had when our doe was at the peak production (and there was a-plenty!), we simply sold to help pay for hay and grain.

We have our doe, her two daughters, and her wether son. They are easy keepers and help with the brush clearing. With the two doelings we have plenty of options to expand as we wish, and thanks to the fact that they can be bred year round, we can stagger the breedings to keep us in milk - which I would recommend, as have others, to keep you in milk year round.

-HOWEVER-

given we continue to get an ample supply of milk from our single doe, I frankly dread having to breed and milk her daughters. We'll be swimming in milk all over again I'm afraid, and while we do sell/barter it, the sales are completely under ground since we're not a license dairy, so it's a much trickier market. We need to breed them soon though, before the girls get too much older. All this to explain that you should carefully consider what your needs will be. At peak, we were getting a half gallon per day!, which doesn't seem like much, but was more than plenty for us and our chickens too! I gained more weight than I would have liked just drinking it. Wish you were near.

[Oat Bucket Farm]

I will chime in a say that LaManchas are also an excellent choice. I started out with Nubians and switched to LaManchas. The milk is comparable as far as butterfat and taste, to the Nubian, but in general you tend to get a longer, more level lactation with the LaMancha. Manchas talk (sometimes a lot) but all of my Manchas have such quiet voices that it doesn't matter and noise level is something I have to watch since our little place is in town. The Nubians, while beautiful, about drove us and our neighbors batty with all of their loud talking. Nubians have loud voices and lots of opinions.

[prairiedog]

I would get two LaMancha does and a boer buck. The does would give plenty of milk and the babies wuld be good meat for the table. Add a feeder pig or two and fatten them out on the extra milk and you are good to go. Remember it takes about a gallon of milk for a pound of cheese.

[Alice In TX/MO]

LFRJ, I don't think you meant one pound, did you?

[birdman1]

I'v got milk cow because I can raise her calf for beef and there is plenty of pasture but not very good fenceing .plenty of milk to share with the other animals Pigs n chickens get a healthy glow when they get some milk now & then I have a friend that loves the yogert made from my whole milk ,theres a longer storage time in the fridge so saving the auto seperating cream for butter does'nt get off flavord. If you have Very good fenced pasture or dry lot dairy goats work well and there small size makes them easyer to handle I'll agree with having 2 does that can be bred a differint times to avoid the milk drought of having only 1 milker and why have 1 to feed for no return just plan your cheese making for times when the extra milk is flowing.I try to advise getting pure bred stock as when extra offspring arrive they will be easyer to sell or trade try to go with a breed that matches the buck you can use .if your planing on eating the off spring a full sized doe can be crossed with a meat type buck for chunkier kids .I cross my milkcow with a free to use angus bull with excelent results another reason to avoid pigmie types.

[LFRJ]

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

LFRJ, I don't think you meant one pound, did you?

Unless my lo-tech postal scale is wrong, yes. 1.3 - 1.8 lbs per milking, once per day. We were milking 2xdaily and she was giving 12oz per, so I switched to once per day this past Fall thinking she would like, finally dry off! (gramatical dramatical poetic license, Alice ). Instead, she boosted to 1.4 lbs (avg) per milking, and doesn't seem to want to quit. Her kids were born early June 2010, so I think I was wrong, that's near 19 months, not 20. Still....

Prairiedog, I like your idea. La Mancha's would/will be our next choice if we ever wish to add to our herd - but man I would sure miss those airplane propellers! (Forgive me for posting a pic of our kids. We won't be having any baby pics to share this spring, so I couldn't resist... but see what I mean? They're all ears!) We expect great things from her daughters, but I think we better get on with it sooner than later.

[CircleStarRanch]

Thanks for all the input so far! I am seeing the general direction we need to go! I knew I could count on some great advice.

We do make our own cheese now - using "store-bought" cow milk - with varying results. It is very difficult to find suitable milk commercially that isn't "ultra-pasturized". Here in the hellish part of Arizona, we can only make any cheese late fall to early spring, as it is too difficult to keep the temperature cool enough for hard cheeses to cure properly. We have had good success with speadable and cream cheese though. My wife loves yogurt and I will eat it if it is sweetend and flavored

-Dutch

[thaiblue12]

Well if you are worrying about goat size you could get a mini Nubian. They have larger teats, produce more milk then a Nigerian. Too bad you are in AZ I have one for sale, one month fresh and she is a good producer.

Unless you do not want too much milk, I would get two does and a wether. The wether will let you know when they are in heat, and if for some reason something happens to one goat, or you send one off to be bred you will have a pair of them, they will not be lonely and you will not be scrambling around for a friend for a lone screaming goat.