Help needed!

Wendy · #1 01/04/12, 12:40 PM

I have an almost 4 year old doe that I just bought as a bred doe. Not sure of exact due date. She had quads her first year & triplets last year. She is big. I never knew a goat could get so huge, so apparently she is carrying a numper of kids again. She seriously can barely get around with he stomach being just a few inches from the ground.
I ended up stalling her because I was worried she would go down & a cow would step on her. A few days ago she was lying on her side & could not get up. I managed to get her standing & she was fine for a few days. This morning she did the same thing. I honestly think she just can not stand up with the weight of the kids. I got her to a normal lying position now, but can't get her to stand up. I literally can not lift her up! She is a huge Nubian doe.
What can I do? I hate to lose her or the kids, but I can't have her go on like this. What is the earliest kids can be saved if I were to induce her? I am trying to contact the previous owner to see if he can give me the earliest she may be due.
I am not new to goats, but have not had any have more than triplets & never had any as big as her. I am not quite sure what I need to do for her.
Any advice is welcome!

Kshobbit · #2 01/04/12, 12:51 PM

Is she eating, drinking and chewing her cud? Okay, is her udder full and tight?
Do you have a Vet that can not only induce her but go in and untangle the kids if needed? I think you need to get the Vet out and do something asap. Just saying and sure I do not have all the information.
I hope some other goat folks can help out here??????

Tallabred · #3 01/04/12, 12:58 PM

I would definitely start getting calcium in her. My Nubian that gets big loves the CMPK (vet script) but I will give it to her orally - she sucks it out of the syringe. Other than that I would give her tums, raisins and vitamin C. Do you have Bose.

Wendy · #4 01/04/12, 01:03 PM

Yes I have Bose. I am out the door to get more things.

susanne · #5 01/04/12, 02:04 PM

make sure she gets a lot of energy with her diet. i had couple of quads in the past and the does looked very big but none had problem walking.
did you take her temperature? have a due date?

Wendy · #6 01/04/12, 03:51 PM

Here is a picture taken about 3 weeks ago. She is much bigger now.

Wendy · #7 01/04/12, 03:53 PM

OK, I stopped at the vet's. She gave me CMPK. Dose is 60 cc once or twice a day injected. Do I have to give it as an injection? Seems like an awful lot to inject at one time even though I split it into 4 different places.
She also gave me Propylene Glycol with the dose at 60 cc 2-3 times per day.

Donna1982 · #8 01/04/12, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wendy

Here is a picture taken about 3 weeks ago. She is much bigger now.

Oh that poor baby. That looks painful :-(

LoneStrChic23 · #9 01/04/12, 04:10 PM

You spilt the CMPK into at least 2 shots, it's most effective if given by injection so yes, I'd inject SubQ over the ribs.

Poor gal, looks miserable!

HappyFarmer · #10 01/04/12, 04:10 PM

Everything I've read states over 10 days early and chances are slim for survival. Lungs are one of the last things to develop in a fetus. Get some nipples ready in case you have to bottle feed.

Your girl looks huge.

I think getting a window due date from the breeder is a good idea, but if she didn't give you one when you bought the doe I wouldn't make any life or death decisions based on her dates.

If the doe (and 2 or more kids) are worth the cost, I think I'd have an ultrasound performed. I have never had one done, so I don't know how much it might cost, but others on the board have so maybe they can give an idea. I'm thinking the ultrasound can get you a decent date on when she will kid, and from there know when luting her will give the kids the best chance for survival. Are those ultrasounds good enough to get that information? I don't know.

If the ultrasound is cost-prohibitive, I'd watch her & if she doesn't go or gets worse moving around, I think I'd lute her regardless - better to save the doe IMO vs. her having issues from non movement or becoming unstable.

I"m just throwing this out there, I have no idea if it will work. Maybe one of those goat-packing saddles, you know the soft-sided ones for hiking with your goat or dog, strapped to her (if it will fit, lol!). She could lay down, but not roll over past X part of her side. Maybe soda bottles of water or something to stop the roll, about mid-rib???? It would need chest, rear, and girth straps. Just thinking here....

Pregnant does need their excercize. I would NOT put her in a sling, not that you said that, again just thinking out loud.

I also agree with the load she has she needs the supportives you are giving her.

I hope all works out well for you, her, and those kids.

HF

Oat Bucket Farm · #11 01/04/12, 04:19 PM

Oh my, she is huge and looks miserable. Has she carried them that low her whole pregnancy? She looks like she could go at any time. I hope the previous owner has some idea of what her possible due date is.

thaiblue12 · #12 01/04/12, 04:27 PM

Wow I have never seen a goat carry them so low, poor thing looks uncomfortable. I hope she is due very soon and all the babies do well.

In Humans they can do age of fetus and etc so they probably could do the same for goats with an ultrasound. I know my vet does not have a portable one and I would not try and load up a doe that big and take her anywhere.

Backfourty,MI. · #13 01/04/12, 04:30 PM

I've never seen a doe that big or carrying so low. I do hope she's close to her due date for her sake & yours!

I second the CMPK, Tallabred said she gave her orally but like others have said it works faster if given SQ.

What is her diet consist of? Is she getting alfafa hay or pellets?
Does her udder look or feel full & tight yet? What about her ligaments, can you still feel those?
I'm wondering if all the weight of the kids is causing pressure on her back & then making it hard for her to get back up once she's down. In humans the baby or babies can pinch nerves in the back, etc. Just thinking outloud & trying to give some maybe's.

Keeping my fingers crossed for your girl & please keep us updated on the progress.

Wendy · #14 01/04/12, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Oh my, she is huge and looks miserable. Has she carried them that low her whole pregnancy? She looks like she could go at any time. I hope the previous owner has some idea of what her possible due date is.

I am trying to find out from the breeder if that is how she always carried kids. Mine tend to carry wide, not low.
He said the end of January is the earliest possible due date.
She is getting grass hay. Some alfalfa pellets. About 1-2 cups of 12% allstock feed with about a cup full of 32% horse pellets. I am checking on a custom dairy mix, but do not have it at this time.
I bottle feed all of my kids, so I have all those supplies on hand. I am not worried about pulling kids as I have done that many times too.
She is not really bagging up yet. I am going out to check on her in a little while before I go to work. I'll give her another round of meds when I get home later tonight.
She is drinking fine & was nibbling hay & some alfalfa pellets I put in for her.

HappyFarmer · #15 01/04/12, 04:59 PM

One more thought:

Is the breeder sure she's 4? I took another peek at her photo. She's awful swaybacked & carrying lower sometimes can happen after many kiddings, the weight can just pull down & create a look similar to her. My older does carry a bit lower than they used to, but not THAT low.

I don't know, maybe it's just the photo but I wanted to throw it out there.

HF

DamnearaFarm · #16 01/04/12, 05:11 PM

That's sorta what it looked like to me too, HF. I don't have experience with bred does but I do with bred horses. Same look for the same reason.

lindamoo · #17 01/04/12, 05:24 PM

It appears that her uterine suspension has given way. I would talk to your vet and the seller if it was my goat. If I remember correctly this is a cull factor. Linda

HappyFarmer · #18 01/04/12, 05:28 PM

Hmm. Maybe take a peek at her teeth - if she's real old there will be a lot of wear compared to a younger animal, though it wouldn't be an all inclusive, over 4 and it's hard to put an age on them & it would depend on the types of foods they have eaten throughout their lives.

HF

HappyFarmer · #19 01/04/12, 05:29 PM

Lindamoo what causes a uterine suspension to give way?

lindamoo · #20 01/04/12, 05:45 PM

I believe it's heriditary, just like weak suspension in a doe or cows udder that sags really bad with lactation. In the case of this doe she may have a difficult kidding. You certainly wouldn't want to retain any of her kidds. I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news but it's better now than later. Check with the vet and maybe he will give you better news. I hope I'm wrong. It sure won't be the first time, nor the last.