Wow!! Input please!

AmberLBowers · #1 01/02/12, 11:05 PM

Finally jumped into the goatie wagon and what a jump it was! We decided to go with pygmies so I could get the basics solid on a smaller animal before we jumped full force into dairy and meat consideration. Pygmies are the most common goats in this area and are "cheap as dirt" as many say. Called about a nanny and baby pair in the local trader magazine and off we were to take a look. When we arrived we were shocked by the conditions. Animals outside in metal cages too small to turn around in. Pigs, goats, chickens and ducks, many with no access to shelter from the wind (forecast to be 17 degrees tonight with bitter winds) The mama and baby pair was already sold but he showed us 2 open older does and a young doe pregnant for "either the first or second time. I reckon she will probably go by the end of the month" She was in a cage too small to turn around in. "We will take her" He grabbed her BY THE HORN and started to drag her to my van. DH stepped up and quickly scooped her up and carried her instead. I know many of you will think we were foolish and should have just walked away but please dont flame us. On the way home we stopped for 2 bales of hay from my grandfather. From the TSC we got probiotic gel, dewormer, CDT vaccine, and iodine (for baby navels) When we got home my DD 7 called from the backseat "Mama, she has stuff hanging out of her butt" Uhoh, I gave DH the puppy dog eyes and he begrudgingly agreed to let her spend the night in the laundry room just in case. Less than an hour later, we now have one tired mama goat and two healthy LOUD babies. I was literally sitting in front of her with my goat book turned to the birthing section "Amniotic bubble? check. hooves and nose first? check. Is mom to busy with baby #1 to notice she has #2 also? Yes, so I broke the sack, got it breathing and quickly retreated to let mom do her job." We are now waiting on the human children to go to sleep so DH and I can trim navels and dip in iodine. My book says to milk mama to make sure there are no wax plugs. If the babies have already nursed do we still need to do that? Mom is doing well, cleaning and loving on babies. Will she reject them if we dip the navels etc? I thought we would have time to bond with her before this happened!! Also, she has yet to pass a placenta that we have seen but we have been running back and forth so maybe we missed it? She has eaten all the amniotic sacs etc already so? She is still occasionally gritting her teeth like when she was laboring so is there a chance there is another baby? She looks significantly "deflated" but I don't want to leave it to chance. Any advice or critique is appreciated. Also DH is charging the camera, I told him pics were mandatory on here. I just gotta figure out how to post them.

JBarGFarmKeeper · #2 01/02/12, 11:17 PM

OMG! That is a story for the books! Congrats! I believe that many on here wouldn't blame you at all and will be mighty glad that you (undoubtedly) saved those 2 (if not all 3) from certain death in those temps without proper shelter.

Sounds like you have done well. Congrats again. If the kids have nursed, you can check the teats but it is likely the plugs are gone.

Gena

southerngurl · #3 01/02/12, 11:21 PM

I would call the authorities on them, shelter is a requirement I'm pretty sure.

You can bump a goat by putting your arms around her belly, so your hands are in front of her udder and pull up with some firmness but gently. Babies feel hard, afterbirth is soft. If you feel nothing there also check the birth canal for feet. If both areas are clear you should be ok.

Dipping the navel and feet with iodine will not make her reject the babies and should be done immediately (although with them being in the house there probably aren't much germs for them to be wallowing in anyway.

Just make sure milk is coming out and the babies are getting full bellies. Is mom getting any alfalfa? Don't go changing her diet up but if she isn't, incorporating a little in over a couples weeks should benefit her milk production. But I have only had standard goats and dairy at that, so Pygmy's I'm not familiar with. I'm sure they are pretty easy keepers.

You want to worm her now as the hormones will cause worms to activate. What wormer do you have? You probalby want a moxidectin wormer, quest or cydectin. Quest is 1 cc per 100 lbs and you want to mix it before you give it to a goat (with horses you use most or all of the tube and they aren't mixed for small doses).

Also, get her a free choice loose mineral if you haven't.

Please keep an eye out of CL lumps popping up. With a move it will rear its ugly head if she's positive. Since they've already nursed if she has CAE they will too but get her tested so you know. You don't want CL rupturing into your soil because that's the end of your goat escapades on that land for years.

bee · #4 01/02/12, 11:33 PM

Oh Joy!! Nothing like going in head first......congrats for having big hearts. I hope you don't suffer for your kindness with later problems.You most likely saved those kids lives..if she could not turn around in the cage I don't see how she could have cared for them.

If the kids have nursed the plugs are most likely gone but to be sure start at the top of the teat and work down to make some colustum come out just to be sure.

I am a newby too so I can't add too much except if you have molassas on hand make her a warm drink of molassas in water,,I think a tablespoon or so in cup and a half of warm water is about right. Someone with more kiddings under their belt should come on and tell you about vit E and vit B and making sure Mom has enough calcium. Mom will need something other than hay to eat to make milk for those kids,,alfalfa pellets is what I feed to help with the calcium. Gosh, did you get any info on what the ah..old owner was feeding?? Good luck..post pics and updates..I'm sure your children named them already..what sexes??

AmberLBowers · #5 01/02/12, 11:48 PM

Thats another thing, he said he was only feeding her sweet feed. That was it, no hay no browse. Im surprised she hasnt already died from bloat. I have hay, a little sweet feed and warm water with a little honey with her now. The wormer I have says it contains morantel tartrate and you mix it with their feed. DId I go wrong there? So, I give the wormer to mom right now. Can I also do her CDT and probiotic now or wait? Thanks for the quick replies already! One last thing, can I leave the light on in the laundry room tonight so I can check on them without opening the door and going in? (We have been watching through the vent in the bottom half of the door so we dont spook mom, already my goat has me acting like a nutjob) Or will it being bright all night add to her stress or mess her up somehow?

LoneStrChic23 · #6 01/03/12, 12:01 AM

Geeez! Poor gal, I'd definately report the guy first of all.

I also second the reccomendation for Quest Gel wormer at 1cc per 100lbs. I worm all does with this the day they kid & when I bring in new goats I deworm with Quest, then repeat in 10 days.

Go ahead & dip navels, no need to wait. I'd make sure mom has baking soda, hay, a bit of feed & alfalfa. If you haven't already, next trip to the store, I'd pick up Vit B complex injectable to have on hand, as well as a loose mineral (TSC sells a Manna Pro mineral in a small orange bag thats decent, they also have the B vitamins & Quest Gel).

The light shouldn't matter one way or another, but once your finished with careing for her, I'd give her some down time with her babies.

Best of luck with your new goats..... Momma must be one though cookie to have survived that sort of life & I'm sure she'll thrive in her much improved new home.

bee · #7 01/03/12, 12:03 AM

Mine seems "normal" for a goat..and I have had a light on her and her twin bucklings since birth. They are in an otherwise unheated shed and tend to nap under it. I think molassas is reccomended because of the iron in it to help because of blood loss..? List I looked at says that wormer is approved for goats.

southerngurl · #8 01/03/12, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Thats another thing, he said he was only feeding her sweet feed. That was it, no hay no browse.

*shock* Yea, she's a survivor.

Just leave the light off and turn on when you need to. She's not a wild animal, she's not going to stress that easily, especially after what she's been through. She's a tough cookie. Free choice grass hay for that rumen and I agree on the baking soda

LoneStrChic23 · #9 01/03/12, 12:10 AM

I'm not a fan of the feed through dewormers.

What if they don't consume enough?

Given her sad history & poor care, I'd want to ensure parasites were knocked out so as not to add more stress to her. Right now shes highly stressed-new place/kidding & this is a prime opportunity for parasites to really go nuts.

Can you tell us what color her eyelids are? White? Pale pink? If you google "FAMCHA Chart"you should be able to pull up a chart to show you how to check for proper eyelid color......A fecal sample would be ideal, but in a pinch, I prefer to deworm.

Quest is about $10 a tube, easy to dose & the dosages are small so the tube will last a long while.

southerngurl · #10 01/03/12, 12:13 AM

Agree I would get the quest. Depending on the eyelids she
may need more than one dose (up to three 10 days apart).

AmberLBowers · #11 01/03/12, 12:45 AM

Both are girls!!

Milked a stream of colostrum out of both teats. Oreo is delivering the placenta now. We are about to replace the bloody gross old comforter we have under them with a clean old comforter as soon as she is done disposing of the placenta (yuck). Will check her eyelids then. Then beddy bye. They have to go in the outside pen tomorrow. Im already so worried about those poor babies in the cold. But they will have a large doghouse stuffed with hay, windbreak on 3 sides and Im gonna put my red heat lamp that I use in my chick brooder on too. Please tell me my little DS (Double Stuffed) and Cookie wont freeze. Have you figured out that they are all black and white yet?

CarolT · #12 01/03/12, 12:54 AM

My goat made me dispose of the placenta LOL

Congrats on the new additions! They should be fine, but be very careful with heat lamps and hay, maybe give them hot water bottles?

nehimama · #13 01/03/12, 03:37 AM

When we talk about "checking the eyelids" we mean the color of the membrane of the lower, inner eyelid. Dark, dark pink is best, pale or white mean panic time. Pale or white means an overload of worms has made her anemic.

A large doghouse stuffed with hay and windbreaks around should be fine. I would not add a heatlamp to this mixture.

Bless you for removing your Oreo from her horrid living conditions, and here's hoping you and your family enjoy her and the babies for years to come.

AmberLBowers · #14 01/03/12, 05:23 AM

Eyelids are pink. I got about an hours sleep and woke up to goat baby yells. Cookie was yelling at mom and trying to find where to nurse. Mom was contentedly lying down chewing her cud (that is what she was doing since she is a ruminate right?) and murmuring back to baby but not standing up. I opened the laundry room door and mom stood up as she is skittish. Cookie nursed for a few seconds and then started being curious about the rest of the room. Then DS stood up and started "bumping around" on mom. She keeps tryin to find it in her moms front armpit ever since birth. Mom is talking back to her and grooming her all the while. I kept trying to put DS at the teat But when I do it the baby pushes her head back against me. I sat in there for a while talking to mom, telling her how good she did to deliver her babies in a new scary place and that she needed to help them figure out where their supper was, I also scratched her sides and got a drop of colostrum to try to entice DS to the right place and also to get mom used to being touched. DS wanted nothing to do with my finger. Mom and babes are now back to peaceful sleep. Am I over analyzing this nursing thing? I KNOW both babies nursed at least once since birth, probably more. Both are already walking well (just a wee bit wobbly) curious about their surroundings, and LOUD. Is there just a normal learning curve about them learning to find it immediately and I need to calm down and let them and their mom work it out thereselves? I of course dont want them to die but I also want them raised by their dam if at all possible. Am I stressing to much and just need to go to sleep and chill out? How do you guys do this without goin nuts worrying

?

rootsandwings · #15 01/03/12, 06:46 AM

If you have seen them nurse on their own, they can do it. there is a learning curve. as long as they look strong and healthy, don't mess with the system.

Don't worry about "disturbing" mom - She isn't going to eat them or abandon them. we always try to spend lots of time with new moms loving on them and the babies so they know we are part of their herd. Makes milking and handling a lot easier.

I would get a good quality wormer.

Don't let them get too warm in the house. the shift from warm cozy house to cold yard is a shock. can you transition them to the garage?

Backfourty,MI. · #16 01/03/12, 08:23 AM

Babies are a little clumsy at first when trying to learn to nurse. I usually nudge them a little from their rear ends to get them up to the teat like the momma would do. It's a little tricky but I also like to make sure they all get a few good drinks before I can really relax.

I also agree that those pelleted wormers are not good. I second the Quest gel wormer for her even though her eye lids are pink.

Still dip the navals, momma won't mind although some of mine lick it off after I dip them.

Since you got hay I would start giving some alfafa pellets daily also.

No heat lamp. Too dangerous & you definately don't want a fire. It's amazing what goats can get into or knock down.
I use hot water bottles under old towels for newborn kids if I think it is still a little cold for them. They learn real quickly which corner to snuggle in.

Congrats on your new little goat family & can hardly wait to see all the pictures!!

First upload your photos to a photo site like Photobucket. Then hoover over the picture & copy the img code then paste it here in the reply box.

andabigmac · #17 01/03/12, 09:25 AM

Poor things! I'm so glad you saved them. I would call the authorities on that (insert bad name of choice here) that sold your new angels to you. I can't wait for pictures. Everyone has given you great advice. Don't you love it here?

DamnearaFarm · #18 01/03/12, 10:46 AM

Wow. You got there just in time to save those goats. Their guardian angel must have been working overtime!
Congrats.

AmberLBowers · #19 01/03/12, 11:28 AM

Thank you so much to everyone for your advice and wisdom! Mom and babies seem fine this morning, even though their owner is exhausted. mom is laying down contentedly chewing while babys are dozing snuggled contentedly up to her round rump. I occasionally hear a small cry and an answering soothing murmur from mom. Heard noises just now, mom is standing, DS was looking for milk in her moms front armpit again. (sigh). Mom was murmuring to her like "Honey, its in the back, you'll find it in a minute" DS is so funny already, when she cant find the teat she will walk around and get in Oreos face and SCREAM like "I cant find it, HELP!" I didnt intervene this time based on advice from here. I had no idea they were so silly, funny, and expressive. Babys are also playing, rolling around, and head butting each other. This is another sign they are getting enough to eat right? What should I watch for to avoid starvation besides just eating? When they nurse is it for 10 minutes solid like a human or is it ok if they are just taking a nip, playing, then coming back for another nip? I promise I will quit bothering yall with all the questions, but my goat book doesnt answer all my stupid questions,you guys are what is keeping me sane right now.

BoldViolet · #20 01/03/12, 11:40 AM

Boy, what a roller coaster...