Goat Breeding question

thebaker · #1 12/31/11, 07:25 PM

This may sound like a crazy an nausty question on goat sex but is it true a buck may only give all males instead of females?

We've got one buck an every year our doe has nothing but males never any females.

If she has nothing but males this time do you think we need to change bucks? We don't want to give up this buck as he's really sweet but we like to have a few does from our doe.

KrisD · #2 12/31/11, 07:41 PM

The sex of the babies is determined by the father. Just like you see some women with 5 or 6 children that are all the same sex blame it on dad. The mother has 2 x chromosomes and dad has X and Y. If dad ony gives they Y chromosomes then you will only have bucklings. If you get bucklings again then next year (or this year if she isn't bred yet) try someone else's buck. Ask what the buck usually throws, if it is usually doelings then he's your man.

LFRJ · #3 12/31/11, 08:02 PM

really? is this so? That some bucks only issue X or Y chromosomes?

thebaker · #4 12/31/11, 08:39 PM

For the last 2 yrs always been bucks no does.

So if our doe had bucks again here in a few weeks guess we have to find another buck to get some does for new breeding season. Our doe is 2 yrs old so not sure how long a doe can be bred in age.

Love to have a few does before she gets too old.. Guess we better get ready too look for another buck just incase more bucks.

Do know of a few goat breeders an one a long while back said we could use his buck if wanted too but we turned him down but if get bucks again may take that one guy up on his buck offer as he throws both male an females.

Does that sound good or not?

Cannon_Farms · #5 12/31/11, 08:53 PM

I would get a new buck, but if you want to give him a try you can tease him a couple days before you breed him, its thought that male sperm dont live as long as female so when he gets the signal to produce sperm in higher counts the males will die out some and the female sperm is more likely to do its thing, but then again he may not even be producing female sperm..

This is explained in deep layman's terms fyi... there are better explanations to be said but Im not feeling that froggy right now.

pookshollow · #6 01/01/12, 09:07 AM

Oh, fer cryin' out loud! You have one doe that is only 2 years old, and she's had bucks twice?

That's barely a statistical blip. Hardly a reason to give up on the buck.

Last year from one buck I got three single buck kids, one single doe kid and one buck/doe pair. The previous year, I got two sets of triplets (2 does/1 buck) and a single buck kid from him. It varies from year to year.

Now, I do generally change bucks every two or three years, just because I have daughters come up to breeding age and can't use the current buck.

wintrrwolf · #7 01/01/12, 10:02 AM

2 yrs old is still young for a doe you should have quit a few years left of breeding and milking especially with good care.
Males decide the sex, Females decide the amount...so I have been told.
So right now I have a nubian buck that has produced doelings, and a nubian doe that came from pony's trub who produces quads. Pawnee's first breeding was actually to my nigerian dwarf Amron who produced both sexes out of Inga and Sugar and 1 doeling with Crystal, but Pawnee had 2 bucklings.

thebaker · #8 01/01/12, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pookshollow

Oh, fer cryin' out loud! You have one doe that is only 2 years old, and she's had bucks twice?

That's barely a statistical blip. Hardly a reason to give up on the buck.

Last year from one buck I got three single buck kids, one single doe kid and one buck/doe pair. The previous year, I got two sets of triplets (2 does/1 buck) and a single buck kid from him. It varies from year to year.

Now, I do generally change bucks every two or three years, just because I have daughters come up to breeding age and can't use the current buck.

Well HONEY for crying out loud..!! We was told the doe is 2 yrs old so that is what going by. And yes every year the doe has had bucks not does.. You've had a some does so can't say too me for crying out loud!!!! We're still new too goats an for crying out loud all you can say.. can't you be more nicer too a new goat person? for crying out loud..!!! I will say this till blue in the face as I just wanted some help for crying out loud. .. your just like any of the other goat people I've talked too acting like should know it all about goats but for crying out loud!!! We don't we've only had them for a few years an I've been pregnant so there for crying out loud....

how many goats do you have? We've only got 2 so that's it... if it varied from year too year we should had got a doe but NO all bucks..for crying out loud.. since you want to throw that in my face. even my hubby said you shouldn't treated me like this, so yes I'm ticked off plus sick but asked a question for help but oh no had to get someone to say for crying out loud.. no wonder lots of newbies don't ask a question on here. I don't sell goats so I guess this forum is for breeders/sellers..

Wingdo · #9 01/01/12, 11:12 AM

Easy thebaker... to some it is a common expression, to others an insult.

We've been at it with goats for ten tears now and we have had bucks in the past that leaned more towards the male side. We do a little research on our new bucks now, but male/female is only one aspect of the it as we never have much trouble getting shed of either. We look for a long body with a good top line and let what we raised to date do the rest... we still cull hard to get exactly what we want in does and most of our bucks only hang around for two breeding seasons.

I'm sure pooks wasn't trying to be insulting so don't read too much in to it. This is a good board, with good people/ideas and thoughts on goat management.

thebaker · #10 01/01/12, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wintrrwolf

2 yrs old is still young for a doe you should have quit a few years left of breeding and milking especially with good care.
Males decide the sex, Females decide the amount...so I have been told.
So right now I have a nubian buck that has produced doelings, and a nubian doe that came from pony's trub who produces quads. Pawnee's first breeding was actually to my nigerian dwarf Amron who produced both sexes out of Inga and Sugar and 1 doeling with Crystal, but Pawnee had 2 bucklings.

It would be nice our doe was a milker but she's not but taken great care of. We use our 2 only goats for cleaner land only nothing more. We've only been in goats for about 3 yrs not long so still new too them. Hubby said he like to get a nice milker later but for now we're only using for clearer land. The guy where we got the doe said she only 2 so that's what going by but he may not know her real age. For us we never looked at her teeth an if didn't could tell due to not knowing what to look for. We just know that goats don't like to be alone, an what to watch for when getting ready to kid not really anything more.

I'm going to say sorry to the ones that was kind to me that I lost my cool on someone saying for crying out loud!! I can't stand remarks like that when just needing some help. I usually don't lose my cool but I've been sick for 2 days,with a nasty sore throat an trying to get ready for road trip so don't want no doctor trip. So thought ask about the goat breeding thing as hubby wants to look at goats at a guys house on they way. Trip not a good trip ither, so i'm on the edge of things right now. I'll say if this forum is only for goat breeders an sellers I'll not ask anymore questions as don't need no smart remarks. Bad enough sick but hubby great father is dying so things is hard.

LoneStrChic23 · #11 01/01/12, 12:14 PM

"For crying out loud" is typically just a figure of speech, I don't think Pook was trying to be offensive. It's very hard to express emotion online with no body language or tone of voice, so I think it's best not to get offended unless someone is bluntly nasty.

I don't think you've given your boy enough chances to prove himself. Sex is a luck of the draw so even if you use another buck, you may get all boys, nature loves to be spontaneous like that.

On a semi related note. A friend and I were chatting about kid gender. She has used the same buck for 3 years.....Mostly buck kids (which is fine for her, many go as market wethers), very few doelings. This year she gave all her does Bo-Se about 2 months before breeding, then gave her buck buck Bo-Se about 2 weeks before. She's kid out 4 does, 9 kids, only 2 bucks. She worried about the breedings because Bo-Se is supposed to affect sperm motility if given to the buck close to breeding, but now she's joking that it just slowed down the male sperm.

Wonder if it's all a fluke or if it's related? This is the 1st year she's used Bo-Se, plus better minerals (she's a boer person & some of this dairy gals management is wearing off on her

)

No way to prove, and likely just a coincidence, but awesome that she has a few does to keep for future brood does

pookshollow · #12 01/01/12, 04:30 PM

Delete.

R.Adams · #13 01/01/12, 06:33 PM

If she is truly only 2 you can look at her teeth and know positively. Starting at 1 year of age they start getting adult teeth. So if you open her mouth, look at her teeth. If there are 4 large ones on the bottom then she will be truly 2. You get 1 pair of adult teeth each year until their 4. After 4 you can't age them this way anymore.

As for your unfortunate luck of getting only boys, well that's what it is, bad luck. You will stand a greater chance of having girls if you only let your buck breed your does at the very start of her standing heat and then taking him away. The male sperm doesn't live as long in the body and you have a good chance of it dying before it can reach the egg so only the female (y) sperm will be left alive to impregnate the egg.

Our bucks tend to give alot of females in the older bucks. The young bucks I guess like to breed all the time and we tend to get alot of bucklings from them. As, when their more mature as a 2 y/o we shift back to more doelings then bucklings.

dosthouhavemilk · #14 01/01/12, 08:49 PM

In mammals, the male decides the gender of the offspring...or at least, the genetic makeup (though abnormalities in mammals happen). The sperm are either X or Y. The eggs the females produce are X.
So statistically you should see a 50/50 rate of gender. Is this what we find? Of course not. Over time it should average out for a buck, but it doesn't always. I'll use a couple of my own bucks in this case since I kept track of their offspring produced here.
Rudy produced 102 known offspring on our farm in 5 breeding seasons. He bred a few outside does as well, but they aren't counted in the tally. He came close to 50/50 but each year produced slightly more females than males. 54 does to 48 bucks.
We used William for 6 breeding seasons. He was used much more lightly than Rudy. We also have some unaccounted for kids his first two seasons. I couldn't pinpoint the sire without testing. He produced 24 does to 27 bucks.
A third buck was Sparky. We used him for three seasons. He produced 41 bucks and 24 does in those three seasons. Always heavier on the bucks.
I do believe that a doe's body can be more likely to allow the male sperm than the female sperm to survive and vice versa. The PH of their system can affect what survives to fertilize the eggs. We had two full sisters (one year apart in age). Utopia kidded 7 times for us. 6 does and 12 bucks. The last doe ended up being a hermaphrodite, so even more towards the male side..
Her full younger sister, Baby, produced 5 sets of twins resulting in 7 does and only 3 bucks.
They had the same sire and the same dam and were generally bred to the same herdsires as well and yet what they produced was markedly different.
Baby's daughter, Bianca, Produced nothing but bucks until last year. Last year she had buck/doe twins and this year she produced triplet doelings bringing her total kids to 8 bucks to 4 does.
I have a doe named Marguerite. To date, she has produced 7 bucklings and 1 doeling. That doeling, Pixie, was a singleton born her first year. She was bred to Rudy every year because I love that doe and wanted more of her. This year I am breeding her to someone else since we lost Rudy. I am hopeful for a doeling or two. Her daughter, Pixie, is following in momma's footsteps. nothing but bucks so far (bred to three different bucks) and she will kid for her fourth time this coming year.

The thing I'm trying to point out is yes statistics say this should happen, but nature does not play by any rulebook. It does its own thing.

You are working with a very small pool so everything seems extreme. Because in your case, it is. You are seeing the worse case scenario. Nothing but bucks from your one (?) doe and your buck. You have a doe like Pixie and Marguerite above. It could be the buck and it could be the doe.
Some swear by feeding Apple Cider Vinegar to their does to help change their PH (not sure how that would work without douching but some swear by it).

You might try only letting them breed as soon as she comes into heat to try and increase the odds of does as the male sperm swim quick and die sooner while the female sperm are slower moving but live longer. This way the female sperm have finally reached the tubes when the egg is finally released and most of the male sperm has died off.

It may be time to switch bucks. As much as a doe's body can affect the environment the sperm are welcomed into, the male's body could affect what makes it out.

If you really like your buck, you might consider adding a new clean doe to your program. 2 does increases your chances of replacements and your odds of doelings.

Forgot the age question. A well cared for doe can easily live and kid from 8-12 years old. Most deaths around those ages occur as a result of kidding complications. We have a few 9 year olds that are just this year showing signs of slowing down.
2 is still quite young and she has an easy 4-6 years left easily. Some does do not even kid for the first time until they are two years old.

chamoisee · #15 01/02/12, 12:39 AM

It is possible if there is a lethal gene at work that is causing all the female embryos to die off/not take.

Pony · #16 01/02/12, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wintrrwolf

So right now I have a nubian buck that has produced doelings, and a nubian doe that came from pony's trub who produces quads.

Just like her mom!

ShyAnne · #17 01/02/12, 01:49 AM

My Nana has had several sets of twins....7 bucks 1 doe... different buck sires to boot...Talk about bad luck! I am hoping for a replacement does this time.... But I expect more bucks

Sigh.. the joys of breeding .

Backfourty,MI. · #18 01/02/12, 08:08 AM

I have a doe that is now 8 years old. She has only given me 1 doeling in the 5 almost 6 years I've had her. I'm hoping she throws a doeling or 2 this spring. She's been bred to 3 different bucks since being here.

I do have 1 buck that was bred to 2 of my does' last year & they both had bucklings so we'll see what he throws this year. I bred him to 2 does' this year but different girls.

Pookshollow I'm sure wans't meaning anything bad with her comment. She is very friendly & very knowledgable. I'm sure it was just a figure of speech & not meant to be taken badly.

Oat Bucket Farm · #19 01/02/12, 10:42 AM

Yes, the doe can have something to do with it. Our first goat was bred to a buck who had plenty of daughters on the ground. She gave us twin bucklings.

I agree, Pook wasn't being snarky. Pook is a nice lady. It can be very difficult to determine the tone when your reading comments. Especially when you have a cold and a dying family member and you are already upset.

white eagle · #20 01/02/12, 06:28 PM

Their goat is 4 yrs old, I'm watching their place since they're gone so went out too check their does teeth for age, she's 4 yrs old as she has lots teeth no kids teeth now. When it comes breeding time for my friends goat again, a bud of mine has a very huge Nubian buck that throws both sexes so maybe they get a doe then. I'm on goat watch for my friends while gone also, due too their doe is expecting but not sure when,she's already starting to bag up, showed dropped of baby, the weather is very cold here with the wind chill close too 0 so doing goat watch for them.

I'm the goat sitter/watcher..