Dairy Goats...dam-raising + milking vs. milking w/bottle/buckets

[JBarGFarmKeeper]

What are your experiences? I have done some of both. Most recently I have allowed some older ND does that haven't dam-raised regularly keep their kids and I have NOT been impressed. We have had "too-cold" issues and some squishing of 2 month old kids with plenty of room and being inside the barn at night.

Any experiences you wish to share?

We have milked our does and bottle/bucket fed with much greater success. I'm at the point of not wanting to take chances any more.



Gena

[Jcran]

We are dam-raising for the first time (dairy-we've had boers for a long time)..we still milk 2 x a day to keep the udder even, but it is much faster and the kid keeps her pretty empty...we get about 1 quart a milking and we don't have to bottle feed. With our busy schedule, life is much easier

[Alice In TX/MO]

I was forced into serious bottle feeding last spring when Cassie had quad bucklings. It's NOT my favorite way to raise kids.

For ease, convenience, and fewer headaches, I like them dam raised, with penning the kids at night so I can milk in the mornings.

[Donna1982]

Personally I love to bottle raise. We will when we breed our dairy girls. Most likely the boers as of now will be dam raised. I have a question for everyone (hope you don't mind) has anyone had trouble with bottle raised dams being good moms later on?

[Jcran]

I forgot to add something: we test TWICE A YEAR for CAE and CL...while we remain negative, I would NEVER EVER NOT EVER dam raise unless we did.

[mysticklobo]

Sounds like my one friend does. Separating them at night, then giving the babies a bottle before milking the moms and then turning them into the same pen during the day. The only time she keeps them totally separate is on milk test days, so that she gets all the milk.

[rootsandwings]

Bottle raised the first two - got them as bottle kids. One is a great mom, one is a semi-lousy mom (ignores the kids and weans them by eight weeks). All kids born here have been dam raised. Lost one surprise September buckling on a cold December night. He was a single born to the semi-lousy mom and I think she either squashed him or let him freeze.

The first dam raised daughter of the great mom that i kept kidded 3 lb twins in bitter February and kept them warm and fed and they are strong, sturdy little fellows.

At 2 weeks I start separating at night, milking in the morning and then turning them out together.

[JBarGFarmKeeper]

Originally Posted by Jcran

I forgot to add something: we test TWICE A YEAR for CAE and CL...while we remain negative, I would NEVER EVER NOT EVER dam raise unless we did.

We, too, test when we preg test our does through biotracking. I have a 6-7 year old doe that is in the mid 20's (neg) and I don't even let her dam-raise. However, all the gals that are dam-raising now are being milked 2x a day and have constant contact with their kids. They were all CAE tested when they were preg tested for these kids. We have never had a CAE pos doe freshen here, or in milk for that matter.

In fact, we have tested 1 to 2 year olds that were having trouble getting bred (3 in all) and all 3 were high CAE positive. Is that a sign of CAE, diffculty breeding?

Anyway...

[Oat Bucket Farm]

We prefer bottle raising. We tried dam raising and separating the kids at night. Won't do that again.

[mygoat]

Dam raise boers, pull dairy kids and raise on bottle.

There's easy and hard ways to do things, just as there's expensive and economical ways to do things. What you do depends on your goals.

Dairy goats are expected to be friendly. In a herd of 20+ animals and kids, not all dam raised kids get socialized here, as we have lives away from the farm as well and don't have 9000 hours to dedicate to taming that many kids every season. Dairy kids are pulled and raised on the bottle, does milked 2x per day. Makes it easier on the does/kids (who hate weaning or penning of the kids, stresses 'em out I find), makes it easier on us, and makes milking time a breeze when the does adopt you as their kids. Also is great for recordkeeping (does on DHIR here). Kids start out on 4x per day feedings, then go down to 3x per day within a couple days, and are on 2x per day at 12-14 days old. Rationing milk (and yes, this year I plan on experimenting with the dreaded milk replacers on dairy bucklings) allows for more milk to be sold/used. Since we plan on selling/doing milk shares next year, rationing milk is important. A langston study shows rationing milk gives most economical growth rate - not the fastest, but definetely adequate and most cost effective. IMO in the dairy goat industry, more people should be geared towards productivity and profitability...

Oh, and good luck giving cocci prevention to goat kids every 3 weeks for 5 days in a row when they're dam raised and not super tame. What a joke. I'll be using medicated feed next year on all my goats pre-kidding, and free choice to kids. Yes, I'll be doing regular fecals, and will do an initial treatment at 3 weeks of age.

Boers are dam raised. With boers, the idea is the least amount of inputs and maximum outputs. Generally, that means dam raising. I'm considering bottle raising doe kids that either have a deposit on them before kidding or are requested within a week of birth, OR ones that I plan on keeping, simply because I hate catching/working with most dam raised kids. But bottle feeding will NOT be regular and does will be expected to raise 90% of their kids born.

[mpete]

A dam raised goat will not consider you part of its herd as a bottle raised goat. I have a dam raised doe, 3rd kidding, will come up to you and want just as much love as the others, however, you take her out of the gate(on a leash) and "you are taking her away from her herd". She is always looking for "that something" that is going to attack her. Even on the milk stand, she is tense and waiting to spring. My bottle raised does come out without a leash, go straight to the milk room and is as calm as anything you want her to be.
....and yes, the dam raised was handled every day

[nehimama]

Looks like a lot depends on your numbers. Last year I did have the time & energy to intensely socialize the dam-raised doelings.

My past bottle-raised doelings have gone on to be excellent mothers. I think the mothering instinct is probably genetic.

This year I think I'll let the bucklings be dam-raised, and bottle the doelings. But I don't know for sure yet; no one has kidded out yet!

I hope this was somewhat helpful. In the end, you decide to do what works for you.

[JBarGFarmKeeper]

Originally Posted by mygoat

Dam raise boers, pull dairy kids and raise on bottle.

There's easy and hard ways to do things, just as there's expensive and economical ways to do things. What you do depends on your goals.

Dairy goats are expected to be friendly. In a herd of 20+ animals and kids, not all dam raised kids get socialized here, as we have lives away from the farm as well and don't have 9000 hours to dedicate to taming that many kids every season. Dairy kids are pulled and raised on the bottle, does milked 2x per day. Makes it easier on the does/kids (who hate weaning or penning of the kids, stresses 'em out I find), makes it easier on us, and makes milking time a breeze when the does adopt you as their kids. Also is great for recordkeeping (does on DHIR here). Kids start out on 4x per day feedings, then go down to 3x per day within a couple days, and are on 2x per day at 12-14 days old. Rationing milk (and yes, this year I plan on experimenting with the dreaded milk replacers on dairy bucklings) allows for more milk to be sold/used. Since we plan on selling/doing milk shares next year, rationing milk is important. A langston study shows rationing milk gives most economical growth rate - not the fastest, but definetely adequate and most cost effective. IMO in the dairy goat industry, more people should be geared towards productivity and profitability...

Oh, and good luck giving cocci prevention to goat kids every 3 weeks for 5 days in a row when they're dam raised and not super tame. What a joke. I'll be using medicated feed next year on all my goats pre-kidding, and free choice to kids. Yes, I'll be doing regular fecals, and will do an initial treatment at 3 weeks of age.

Boers are dam raised. With boers, the idea is the least amount of inputs and maximum outputs. Generally, that means dam raising. I'm considering bottle raising doe kids that either have a deposit on them before kidding or are requested within a week of birth, OR ones that I plan on keeping, simply because I hate catching/working with most dam raised kids. But bottle feeding will NOT be regular and does will be expected to raise 90% of their kids born.

We have been using "Baycox" here since May for cocci. It is not 5 days in a row, thankfully.

I am convinced. We, too, are on DHI and one of the does at her first test after freshening "protested" so much that she gave NO MILK when we took her kid away.

This has been quite an experiment. I am glad we did it in the fall but, heavenly days, this has been a painful experience.

We are freshening over 40 dairy does this spring and were really trying to figure out how to cut the work a little but this is cutting the profit...so that's not going to work.

AND...I am "kidding" in April...

[JBarGFarmKeeper]

Originally Posted by nehimama

Looks like a lot depends on your numbers. Last year I did have the time & energy to intensely socialize the dam-raised doelings.

My past bottle-raised doelings have gone on to be excellent mothers. I think the mothering instinct is probably genetic.

This year I think I'll let the bucklings be dam-raised, and bottle the doelings. But I don't know for sure yet; no one has kidded out yet!

I hope this was somewhat helpful. In the end, you decide to do what works for you.

Yes, I am considering trying to dam-raised the boys and bucket the girls. Most everyone will kid in April and May as I was trying to put the bulk of them after me.

[nehimama]

And welcome aboard, by the way! Good to see you here.

[JBarGFarmKeeper]

Originally Posted by nehimama

And welcome aboard, by the way! Good to see you here.

Glad to be here! I have been reading archive messages all afternoon. There is some funny stuff on here but mostly it's nice to see where everyone else has been.

LOL! Back somewhere you were talking about all things in Moderation. LOL...I am facing MAJOR kidding this spring and cutting back to what I REALLY want. I started with NDs and have added LaManchas and now really, really want to do Mini-manchas because of the challenge, the milk, and the temperament. My back has really suffered through the years and I want to "breed" the goats that I want to keep in the future. It's all good.

I look forward to seeing you soon...

Gena

[Alice In TX/MO]

Careful there, Gena. Mini Mancha quintuplet bucklings for us last spring.

[dosthouhavemilk]

Originally Posted by Donna1982

I have a question for everyone (hope you don't mind) has anyone had trouble with bottle raised dams being good moms later on?

We also raise dairy cattle and had a Grade A license for over 50 years. The family has been raising registered Jerseys since the late 1800s...anyways, when we were selling our milk, all calves were pulled and bottle/bucket raised.
Heifers went on to calve out and nurse their calves for the first 24 hours or so until they were removed.
We've had around 350 or so kids born here on the farm, I wager, and have bottle raised around maybe 150 of them (I'm sure more, but this is what I am guessing). Most of those were doelings. We have had around 5, maybe 7, does really not take to motherhood. Talia refuses to nurse her kids intially. She will clean them up when they are born, but nobody nurses until I hold her down and let the babies nurse. She generally throws triplets (two girls, one boy) and the doelings are pulled and bottle raised. Her dam raised daughter from her first freshening, Natalia, was considered the pretty child. She was not allowed, by Talia, to nurse from the side, only the back. She had issues mothering her kids her first lactation. Natalia's second lactation, we fostered a buckling onto her since we pulled her twin doelings (we planned on, and did, sell her as a milking doe). It took less than four days for her to take the foster and raise him as her own. Talia has gotten better and this year allowed her wether to nurse from the side. Natalia's twin, Zoey, who was raised on CAE Prevention, had issues mothering her first year. However, the situation she was in was not a good one and I suspect that had as much to do with it as anything. The next year, with her environment changed, she did better.
We will see how Talia's three daughters by Kieran do and how Natalia's twin doelings do this coming year. All five were raised on CAE Prevention.

Mothering instincts are more inherited, in my experience, than anything.

Some does have it, and some don't. Environment only has a little to do with it.

Almost all of our does raise at least one kid (Legacy did not since she refused to foster). We milk the does that need it. The milk is not our goal though. Meat sales and sales of milking does are. We have cow's milk to raise the kids and have no outlet for the milk beyond soap...which does not require much.
Our Prevention raised does are very clingy and very friendly. Our dam raised...not so much, though it depends on who their sire was and their dam. A calm dam who likes humans can impart that to their kids.

[pookshollow]

Originally Posted by Donna1982

Personally I love to bottle raise. We will when we breed our dairy girls. Most likely the boers as of now will be dam raised. I have a question for everyone (hope you don't mind) has anyone had trouble with bottle raised dams being good moms later on?

Emily's mother tried to kill her at six hours old, so she was bottle-raised. She is the BEST mother ever. Right now, she is raising a lamb. I was bringing her onto the milkstand twice a day and bringing the lamb to her - until I saw the lamb helping herself.

[eclipchic]

We are still trying to decide what we are doing. Its our first year with goats, our doe was a bottle raised doe and she has never raised her own kids so we are leaning toward bottle rearing to ensure they get what they need.