Starting Goats...why is it so hard?

[Pinky1441]

Hello!
I have been lurking for a little while and I have been reading on every thread just about! This is my first post.

I am hoping to get a property that sits on a little over 5 acres. My husband and I have horses and there is a barn and fenced pasture for them. We have worked a lot of cattle and I have experience in bottle feeding. (But those were cows.) We plan on getting chickens. DH had them growing up. He was raised on Goat Milk, but doesn't remember it much because his mom got rid of them when he was young.

My experience with goats is somewhat limited. When we kept our horses at a public barn, the goats were right next to my horse. We saw the babies a day after they were born. I have chased one down and picked it up. And I have had fed them and pet them. Unfortunatly, that is all. I can't say there was much handling on them and they don't have them anymore. I have vet tech experience but with dogs, cats, and horses. No goats.

I have been reading the other thread about getting started and I kept reading that people who have goats say that even after a few years they are still trying to get a handle on it. So why is it so hard? What is so different about them?

I would love to have some goats and have been doing a lot of reading on them. I can't make up my mind if I want milk or meat. DH used to work at a butcher shop and is a hunter. I don't mind eating it as long as I don't see the process. I have eaten goat before and liked it. Milk goats are more appealing, but I wouldn't know what I would do with the babies as they grow. Not to mention, it would really tie me down where as the meat goats don't need milked! LOL! I still need to taste it but I love the idea of it and all the things you can do with the milk! I am a family of 5 so we use a lot of milk.

Also, there seems to be a mixed reaction to the grazing issue. I understand that goats can be picky where as sheep love the grazing. I am attaching a photo of the property in question. That "grass" is wild grass with a ton of goat head weeds. Would this be more ideal for goats or do you all think sheep would be better? I have not researched sheep at all. What are the benifits of sheep?





We have alot of plans for this property and hope to aquire it. Not pictured is the windmill and storage tank. This property has 2 wells. No matter the outcome, this is the general terrain of the area.

[NataliaTwoDoes]

Welcome pinky..... Im 9 months in and loving it. Im not finding it difficult to raise them, its a joy and a blessing so far. I would guess that the more difficult management issues come with time and lots of goats. Our property has not had goats on it at all and so we have not had issues with typical goat stuff like coccidiosis yet but I think the longer were at it the more likely we are to run into those issues and other issues we've never seen before. Im guessing thats why the veterans are still running into new care issues just chalk it up to more experience.

Here at our place we had a mild case of calcium dif in our freshening doe in August and I think we had lungworm in one doe as when we wormed her the cough disappeared. Both of those were a quick fix with some time and attention.

My novice understanding of goats is that they will most certainly graze but that its not their favorite thing to do but they will still eat what you have available. I wouldn't let a nice grassy property stop me from getting goats. Just my opinion. Again Welcome! That property is great!

[gila_dog]

Milk goats become a major factor in your life. They are either needing milked twice a day, every day, or they are in heat, then carrying babies and having babies. Then they start back milking again. This is an annual cycle that it is very hard to alter. They will really tie you down.
Meat goats require less attention but they need to have access to good feed all the time or they won't produce much meat.

All goats are hard to contain. A fence that will easily contain horses and cattle will just be a playful challenge to the average goat. And they love to get out and cause mischief. All those little trees around your house? The goats will probably find those irresistible.

Free ranging goats is a major challenge because of the containment issue mentioned above, and predators. The worst predators are neighborhood dogs. A fence that might keep goats in, may not keep dogs out. Mountain lions love goats too.

I think you should find somebody locally who has milk goats and go hang around and watch the operation for a while. You will soon see that it is a major commitment.

But if you enjoy hiking and backcountry exploring, pack goats are totally cool. That's what my goats are for. They are big wethers (neutered males) that I bought from a dairy when they were babies. They aren't much trouble (no milking required), and are a lot of fun. They are a lot like having dogs. They need, and love, to go hiking and camping. So if you do too, then it could be a good idea.

[duckidaho]

Welcome, I didn't find keeping goats that "hard". It's not rocket science anyway. But, as was said, milking is a daily event. Goats like to escape and eat stuff you don't want them to eat...like fruit trees. But we jumped right in and we love it. Don't plan on traveling too much. Goat sitters are hard to find. Sitters who can milk are next to impossible. We have a smaller paddock made of cattle panels which works great, but other than that they can easily escape from the larger barbed wire cattle pasture.

Anyway, we love it. We love the goats. We love the lifestyle. It is well worth it to us.

[mrs oz]

We're only 2 months in to having goats and, knock on wood, so far so good. I thoroughly enjoy being around these creatures. They have such personalities. We have them fenced in with cattle panels and have had no escape issues. Our smallest girl did have a pretty bad case of worms, but that is now under control. They love to eat brush and scrub and such.....at least that's what we have found. That was the reason for us getting them, to help us clear some areas of our land and then of course to raise for meat. We have Boers. So, in my VERY limited experience it has not been hard. But of course, I'm sure we have many challenges to come as with having any sort of animals. Good luck on your venture.

[Oat Bucket Farm]

We've had them since 2006. Goats aren't hard if you read the info and take the advice from seasoned goat people. Most problems can be avoided with proper food and minerals. Keep a goat med kit on hand, because if a goat is going to get sick, it will be on a Sunday evening on a holiday weekend, or in the middle of some sort of storm, or when every vehicle you have is broke down, or some such.

We actually haven't had a lot of problems with our goats. We don't have them escaping from their pens or any of that. We've spent a huge amount of time researching minerals and not just what is posted, but following up what we have read here and other places with exhaustive searches and reading on our own.

Your area will determine some of what you need to do with minerals and feeds, including what is available to use. Many here use Cargill Onyx minerals. I can't find anyone who carries them where I am. So I use the Manna Pro. Some people can find beautiful alfalfa hay and use that. I can't so I use pellets.

Also, what kind of goats you have will determine how much you need of what. Meat goats aren't quite as intensive as dairy goats. They don't produce milk in the quantities or for the length of time that dairy goats do.

Personally, I don't mind being tied down by milking. I'm a home body anyway, so it works for me. Extra babies can be sold or eaten. You could even go so far as to use a meat buck over your dairy does to get meatier kids for the freezer.

Fencing can be expensive if you don't want them out. We have a combination of cattle panels and chain link to keep our goats in and we haven't ever had a problem with that.

Because we live in town (a small town but a town none the less) we really haven't had to deal with predators. My town is very proactive when it comes to loose dogs and the recent problem with a dog that went into a fenced yard after a little Pomeranian and paralyzed it, resulted in a search by the police and a dead dog. This being a livestock heavy area, they take rogue dogs very seriously.

So our goats have pretty peaceful living.

That house and land is beautiful. I hope you get it and whatever goats make you happiest.

[airotciv]

We have 4 1/2 acers and we got the goats to keep the pastures down. I love them, but when the DH comes up and says "Do you know what Your goats have done now?" I LOL and ask "What Now?" Goats are smart and each have thier own personality and it can be interesting to say the least. Rocky, is the escape artist and Lilly is the shy goat. Not that she isn't in trouble as much as Rocky, just in different ways. We use 5' welded wire fencing and two hot wires, One on the top and one that is about nose high, So we can keep the goats in the pastures. Now for Rocky we have 3 different locks/latches on each of the gates to keep him in. Then there is Lilly the climber, that can be up in the rafters of the barn 6-8' above our heads. As for grazing, our goats graze, not like Sheep. We do add things, such as veggies from the garden, trimmings form the fir trees/blackberries etc.
Now, we have our goat as pets. Lilly is a Neubian and Rocky is a Oberhasli, both milk goats. Which one to have Milk/Meat goats depends on what you want.

[thaiblue12]

Are you in Colorado? I only hear about goat heads here and they are awful!! My goats do not eat them even when the thorny nasty spikes are green and not so bad. They do eat lots of the other weeds including thisles, but those are their last choice.
If you are here in CO I know a few dairy goat people, besides myself Between us we have a few breeds, from healthy tested herds. If you know the breed you want I may know a person who has some.

You can do dairy goats and milk once a day just keep the kids on them and if you need to miss entire day then I would not separate them that night. You can eat any of the wethers.

[Pinky1441]

THank you ALL for the great responses!!! They have giving me a LOT to think about! I LOVE this forum! I have never thought about pack goats, although that would make a lot of sense. I don't know anyone around who has goats. We just recently moved here. No, I am not in CO though I wish I was. My family is from there and we LOVE it! I am currently in Texas. There are some people who have goats. I have seen them. But word is that they are just pets and are not producing anything. Anything on my land will have to earn their keep. I already have enough mouths to feed. Can't afford just a pet. (Though will keep the pack goat in mind as I plan on walking through the neighborhood and there are many hills...would be nice to have them carry my goodies which I plan on trading for.) Thanks too for responding on the grazing issue. I guess I wouldn't want to eat the thorns either, but I was hoping when it was nice and green and lush they would change their mind. But I guess not! As far as shelter, DH is currently looking into plans with sturdy wood. He plans to have a chicken coop/goat shelter combo. It will be split inside (Solid) but would look like one building on the outside. THe outside "run" is still in question, but one thought would be welded pipe 3 strands with fencing around it. Would that keep them in? About 4 1/2 feet high?

[Ranger]

Welcome. I've had goats for over 20 years, and loved every minute of it. If you don't want the commitment of having to be there for milking get meat goats. They actually seem easier to keep. Probably because they aren't so bonded to humans like dairy goats are, and you don't have to interact with them as much if you don't want to. I do prefer my dairy goats, but that's just me!!!! We'll all be VERY happy to enable you as much as possible!!!!

[gila_dog]

Re the goat/chicken house combo. That's what we have and it works pretty well. The chickens scratch around and find anything edible that the goats drop.



You need to fence off the chicken part of the house with a goat proof fence. Otherwise the goats will be in there climbing on things and eating the chicken feed. Just make a chicken sized hole in the fence so they can go thru when they want.

The best fence I have found for both chickens and goats are livestock panels that have 4" squares top to bottom. The ones I use are 20 ft long by 5 ft high. They are very strong and go up quick. You can attach them to wooden posts with staples, or to metal T posts with wire. They are a bit expensive but they are really strong and easy to work with. I would caution you about using the much easier to find livestock panels with big holes at the top and small ones at the bottom. Goats with horns can get their head caught in these panels.

If you are starting your goat/chicken shed from scratch, consider putting the opening and the pen on the south side of the building. That way the winter sun can keep everything dry and warm up the house for the critters. A shade tree nearby, on the west side (out of reach of the goats) will keep them cooler in the summer.

[sherrie]

Pinky - where in Texas are you? There are several dairy goat herds in all areas of Texas. I live east of Dallas.

[HappyFarmer]

Raising goats is not hard at all if you read up on them and take into consideration your locale and adjust accordingly. Sounds like you are doing just that. Remember boards like this often have problems posted for input as to how to fix it, occasionally a "Things are going great!" thread is started when a series of problems has been posted.

For newbies I always recommend buying from a local breeder who test for diseases, and has management similar to how you are planning to manage your herd. Meat goats vs. milk goats make a difference, too. Better is when that breeder is willing to share their management & be available for advise so you can determine if it will work for you.

Our herd is fairly carefree, come from hardy stock, they are a meat breed, and we manage on pasture. Worms are an issue during the growing season only, we have to supplement minerals, we vaccinate for CD/T & pneumonia, & offer decent hay with grain concentrate primarily when they are growing or pregnant. Easy as pie.

In general issues can arise like coccidia & worms if overstocked or overcrowded, mastitis if you have milky lines or improper hygiene or stripping, hoof issues if not trimmed or wet, rumen issues if not a balanced diet, all kinds of issues if minerals are not balanced, and kidding issues.

Being on this board in itself will give you a great start on your management, how to avoid issues and general care. No 2 farms are the same, so each of us must tweek our management to what works for us, in our locale.

HF

[eclipchic]

Our goats arrived in April and the biggest challenges we've had are them getting out and getting into chicken feed. Beyond that they are really enjoyable to keep, the milk is wonderful- the cheese even better.

[sammyd]

we have found raising goats to be fun and quite easy once you have the proper fence.
I think a lot of people overthink things and have seen many posts where I wondered why they did things in such a difficult or complicated manner.
Goats are as difficult to raise as you make them.........

[6e]

We've been raising goats for 7, going on 8 years now. It's not hard. The hardest part is keeping the little stinkers in as they seem to be the masters of escape and yes, they do eat everything they're not supposed to. I heard someone say once concerning goat fence in that: "If it won't hold water, it won't hold a goat". My husband runs across goat ranchers every now again and he's had some griping about them getting out and my husband asks, "Will your fence hold water?" LOL They always give him this look. A friend of ours is a big time goat rancher with several hundred head of breeder goats. His fence is 6 strands of high tensile electric fence wire and even then he has a few escape. LOL
The other thing is getting the best breeding stock you can afford to start out with and trying to stay away from diseases. That can be a real challenge at times.
Your land looks fine. Yeah, goats prefer to browse, but I can tell you coming from the plains of Kansas, goats can and do graze and get along fine that way. ;-)

[francismilker]

Originally Posted by Oat Bucket Farm

We've had them since 2006. Goats aren't hard if you read the info and take the advice from seasoned goat people. Most problems can be avoided with proper food and minerals. Keep a goat med kit on hand, because if a goat is going to get sick, it will be on a Sunday evening on a holiday weekend, or in the middle of some sort of storm, or when every vehicle you have is broke down, or some such.We actually haven't had a lot of problems with our goats. We don't have them escaping from their pens or any of that. We've spent a huge amount of time researching minerals and not just what is posted, but following up what we have read here and other places with exhaustive searches and reading on our own.

Your area will determine some of what you need to do with minerals and feeds, including what is available to use. Many here use Cargill Onyx minerals. I can't find anyone who carries them where I am. So I use the Manna Pro. Some people can find beautiful alfalfa hay and use that. I can't so I use pellets.

Also, what kind of goats you have will determine how much you need of what. Meat goats aren't quite as intensive as dairy goats. They don't produce milk in the quantities or for the length of time that dairy goats do.

Personally, I don't mind being tied down by milking. I'm a home body anyway, so it works for me. Extra babies can be sold or eaten. You could even go so far as to use a meat buck over your dairy does to get meatier kids for the freezer.

Fencing can be expensive if you don't want them out. We have a combination of cattle panels and chain link to keep our goats in and we haven't ever had a problem with that.

Because we live in town (a small town but a town none the less) we really haven't had to deal with predators. My town is very proactive when it comes to loose dogs and the recent problem with a dog that went into a fenced yard after a little Pomeranian and paralyzed it, resulted in a search by the police and a dead dog. This being a livestock heavy area, they take rogue dogs very seriously.

So our goats have pretty peaceful living.

That house and land is beautiful. I hope you get it and whatever goats make you happiest.

A big AMEN to that oak bucket!!

[mygoat]

The biggest problem with 'starting' with goats, is that people often jump in without ANY knowledge about them whatsoever. This is LESS of a problem with people who are the kind to do research and learn about the care of animals... but it is a BIG problem with people who expect their goats to be healthy and produce well with nothing but water and an acre of pasture...

["SPIKE"]

Don't you think the goat people here are just GREAT!!!!

I can not add much, but would say they are not that hard if you do the things you need to do. As Happy Farmer stated,"
Remember boards like this often have problems posted for input as to how to fix it".
Start with health animals and be wary of other livestock owners coming onto your property. They can unknowingly bring problems to you.
Good fence to keep them in and predators out.
Shelter to protect them form the elements, does not have to be fancy.
Good feed(read the labels) and clean water. Some minerals and vitamins can be in the feed.
Supplement with loose minerals.
Good hay.
There will sometimes be problems, but that is life.LOL And that is when you come back here and say "HELP, I HAVE......OR NEED....."

Do not forget their feet (like I forgot to mention LOL). Learn to trim their hooves and check their feet regularly. How often to trim will depend a lot on their enviroment.

SPIKE

[Pony]

Howdy, Pinky!

Re: thorns
My goats love thorny plants, esp Canadian thistle and multiflora rose. Of course, they also love hemlock, so no accounting for taste, is there?