Bummed.....Awful Day...

[LoneStrChic23]

My Alpine buck, 11 months old apparently has a screw loose. I've been stupidly excusing away some behaviors lately, choking it up to hormones/territorial.

Sam is bottle raised. Was NEVER allowed to play/jump on/rough house with people. Was taught to walk on a lead, stand for hoof trimmings ect. ect. Kids weren't allowed in the pen unsupervised just in case they were tempted to play, & after weaning from the bottle, my children NEVER went in the pen. He hasn't been harshly treated ever. Though he stinks, I still scratch his neck through the fence & give him an animal cookie every morning. Every now & then I take him for walks in the woods, on lead, to browse & it's always peaceful. I always put the boys on lead, take them out of the pen for hoof trimming too (so the other one doesnt chew my hair & such while I'm working)......

I thought I did it right, raised him to be easy to handle, but with no notions that playing with people was ok or that it was acceptable to jump up on or challenge people. He is not a dog, & I didn't treat him as such. We have a routine when I work in the pen, I clip both boys separate, to the fence with special hay while I work. This keeps them out of the way & helps prevent temptation to challenge me in their hormone crazed time...

A few things have led up to today.....Sam has killed 5 chickens......at first I thought dogs, until I caught him. Not a stomping or head butting like you'd expect. I caught him smashing a cochin into the wall, then he stood on her body & used his mouth to rip off her head.

The next one we witnessed, he killed it & ripped the wings off, a foot, then pulled the feathers out. My chickens now know that goat pen isn't safe forage ground.

When he sees them outside the fence he runs the fence line, snorting, stomping & fixated. Once upon a time he lived with them fine......My Lamancha buck, same age is fine with the birds.

Then the cat, who he used to rub on just 2 months ago, was ripped off the fence by his tail & hubby barely got him away in time before Sam killed him.

When we bred him to my 1st girl (housed 50ft away) he was a bit pushy at first, then settled into the courtship routine.....The 2nd, most recent girl he was brutal to.....After breeding he repeadly attacked her, then did the same to one of the younger does....It was clear aggression, not just over eager. Biting, kicking & no attempts to mount, only trying to harm.

I thought he was bored so hubby added some jungle gym goat toys (wooden spools) as well as a jolly ball to their pen....he never touches them, but the other buck loves them...

I kept telling myself things would simmer down after rut.

I thought maybe the girls in season were triggering something, but none of the big things happened when any girls were in season or close to it (I keep track on a calendar)...

Lately at feeding, even though I feed from outside the pen, he sometimes charges the fence & is so worked up/aggressive, he doesnt see his food until I'm gone.

Today was the worst. I put feed in the barn, & then went in the pen to get Tonka (my lamancha) out for hoof trimming & to take him down to the girls pen to see if one of the girls was coming in, then a walk to the woods.

Sam was in the barn & couldn't see the gate area of the yard, so I slipped the lead on Tonka & was heading out. Sam came out of no where. Hit me in the stomach & knocked me against the tree.....he kept jumping on his hind legs, pawing at me & biting me. My 8 year old tried to come to my rescue with the bat, but I held the gate closed while Sam beat me. I grabbed his front legs & held him up in the air while I kicked & kneed him in the gut but he just kept on.

He bit my arms & shoulders, & hit me in the head, jaw & chest with his front feet. At first I thought in the begining he had tried to mount me, but no....he was rearing up over & over just hitting & biting.....like a horse would.. I got backed into the tree & was able to get a firm grip on his front legs & held him as far from me as possible & then my saving grace came in.

My son ran and got my hubby who was in the shower & he came in with fist flying.....Never saw anyone box a goat but he knocked the crap out of him...... I got out, got Tonka out & hubby whooped on Sam enough that he retreated to the barn.

I'm bruised, some of the bites broke skin & one of the hits to the face broke one of my molars.

And I'm heart broken. He has to go. I can't sell him to someone as a breeder, he's not safe. I cant butcher him, I have no freezer space. I can't find rhyme or reason for this new evil Sam, I don't know where I screwed up....The other 2 bucks I've raised are perfect gentleman.... His mean behavior is so un goat like.......Even the way he killed the chickens was more like a dog......Other than the first hit on me, he didn't fight like I'm used to seeing goats fight, it was all biting, pawing & kicking.

I feel responsible. I took the raising of the boys so seriously because I wanted them to be as reliable & easy to work with as possible. Taking Tonka out alone today was nothing new, I'd done it several times before, without the food treat I gave Sam in the barn & no trouble..

I'm thinking running him through the sale barn is my best bet. I've never done that before so I have to call the 2 closest & find out if I have to do anything other than show up with him. CAE/CL free, growthy, lead trained, gobs of bottle feeding, coccidia preventiom, deworming & copper bolusing & here I am having to to figure out what I need to do to run him through the stinking sale barn!

I went out this evening & he calmly met me at the fence for an animal cookie like nothing ever happened.......Dr. Jeckle/Mr. Hyde in a goat....the cat even walked by & rubbed the fence & Sam merely sniffed him as if he'd never tried to kill him....

[Oat Bucket Farm]

I'm so sorry. *hugs* I'm glad you are basically okay and that you were able to keep your daughter out of the pen.

How long has this behavior been going on? Be sure and keep an eye on any babies he may pass this on to.

Glad your hubby was home. Make sure they sell him to a meat buyer at the sale.

[LoneStrChic23]

About 2 months ago is when evil Sam came around, & it wasn't just rut as he was in rut long before & had bred Sabrina before then. His parents are normal, sweet, older goats with no history. His sire is sweet as sugar.

My son was so brave & so freaked out...

Hubby is furious & wanted to shoot him then & there.

That's the kicker..... I've never used the sale barn. I'd take him without papers, but how do I make sure he goes for meat?

A friend said she had a buck do this that had a scur grow down into his head & once fixed he was normal. Sam doesn't have this issue, & none of his relatives are nuts, so I don't know how to explain it. My friend things something is up with his brain & wants me to have him xrayed.....Can't afford that & regardless, the outcome would be the same no matter what.

[thaiblue12]

OMG I am so sorry! That sounds awful for you, the chickens and etc. It does not sound like you did anything wrong to me, I think he is not right in the head. If you had pet the top of his head then I would expect pushing and maybe butting but he sounds insane not pushy. I cannot believe how badly he went after you. I am glad your son ran and got your DH.

I personally would not run him through the sale barn unless you know they are going to slaughter him. They might keep him as a breeding buck and he could be exposed to kids since there is no real history through the sale barn for the most part. Ours requires a scrapies tag which they do for you for $3 extra dollars and that was it.

I would put him on Craig's as a meat goat. Be totally honest and if you feel like they actually want a breeding buck for a meat price move onto the next person. Or if you can have him processed have a couple of buyers lined up for that and not him. I would be scared he would go to a home and a kid would get hurt because they did not listen to you or the sale barn did not disclose it.

Sorry about Sam

[LoneStrChic23]

Exactly Thiablue!

This monster is mine, I can't in good faith let him go to a "home". On his good moments he is impressively well behaved & sweet.... I worry that even if I tell someone the horror story, they'd only see the well behaved, big pretty boy & ignore my warnings. So I can not & will not let him go to anyone who won't butcher him, & I simply don't have the space to do it myself...... And as petty as it makes me sound.... I put so much into him, I can't have him put down & wasted. So he's gotta go to someone who will eat him.

I'm glad I have no broken bones, & even happier I was close enough to the gate to keep my son out. I'm sore, but won't be out of commision, but my gosh my tooth really hurts!

[GoldenWood Farm]

I am so sorry this happened with Sam . I don't post much but I do follow all the posts and I have been reading about your new LaMancha buckling and seen pictures of Sam. He seemed like a real sweetheart when you would post about him.

I have been around quite a few bucks and raised all the bucks I own by the bottle and never had one turn out aggressive like your fellow. I agree with everyone else that he has a screw loose. What he is doing doesn't sound anything like hormones and everything like just blind rage. I am glad your husband was able to get there when he did. It might not have been anything to do with his parents temperaments because it sounds like to me that this goat has serious issues beyond just the normal temperament problems.

Wasn't there another gal on here who had a Boer buck who around the year mark started doing something very similar to what your fellow is doing (not to the extent of killing chickens but being very aggressive towards her and the does)? Either way I am sorry for what you are having to deal with . Hugs to you .

Justine

[Alice In TX/MO]

I'd try CraigsList, too, to see if there's someone who wants goat barbecue for Christmas/New Years. If you were closer, I have friends who would buy him in a heart beat and skin him out in your back yard, so you'd know he wasn't going to hurt anyone else.

YOU didn't do anything wrong. There is something mis-wired in his head.

[HappyFarmer]

I'm sorry he turned on you like that.

I would have let hubby shoot him, I'm surprised he didn't just act and be done with it. He is not one I'd let go to the sale barn....buyers say one thing & do another. Find a buyer & take him to slaughter yourself where they can pick him up after processing if at all possible. If you can't do that take the loss & sleep soundly.

I'm not meaning to hurt your feelings.....but it must be said for others to avoid this type of thing because next time someone may get maimed or killed, he could have turned on your son in a flash & one good butt to the head & this could have turned out worse: Bottle baby bucks are not good to keep intact. It could be hormones, genetics, or even rabies....who knows?

Bucks can be dangerous and one should never turn their back on them.....even if you are confident like you or I.....Bottle babies make it worse. I know you know this but you were caught off-guard, like anyone of us could have been.

If he were mine he would not have lived another day. I hope you seriously consider putting him down and doing the same with any intact sons of his you may have.....

Again I'm very sorry, but male animals are unpredictable and this can not be repeated enough for newbies or even seasoned breeders.

HF

[DamnearaFarm]

I'm so sorry, Crystal.
In addition to the physical pain, you have the emotional pain to deal with as well. <<<hugs>>>
Give your hubby and son a hug for me, they're both brave men.
I agree with the others.... sometimes there is something just broken about an animal and no amount of care, love and careful training can fix or prevent it.
Is there no one nearby that could use him? Perhaps even for dog food?

[KrisD]

Oh my gosh I am so sorry Crystal! I too have bottle raised bucks and have never had anything happen. I too would not run him through the sale barn. Around here the goat rescues buy the meat goats and rehome them. It is too risky. If CL doesn't pan out call the butcher and see if they know any one who wants the meat. If I lived closer I would take him to be butchered and he would be delicious. I am sorry but you didn't do anything wrong. This is NOT your fault. I would call a vet though and ask about rabies. We had a horse get rabies years ago. He is probably fine but since his behavior is out of character and he broke skin you need to be sure. It doesn't hurt to ask about it.
Big hugs!

[cmharris6002]

Crystal this is in no way your fault. I have never, in all my years with goats, heard of this level of aggression, and the Jekyll/Hide behavior. I think something is wrong with him, like a brain injury or tumor. Bucks fight, even if if happened a year ago it could just now be catching up with him.

I'm so sorry you were hurt. I hope you find a meat buyer for him soon.

Christy

[FrogTacos]

Whereabouts in Texas are you, my DH works with a bunch of guys in the DFW area - I'm sure at least one of them might be interested.

If you do end up taking him to the barn, put him on the stand, slice open the bottom of his scrotum, pull the testes out and cut them off. Cant be used for breeding then!

[PrettyPaisley]

I'm so sorry about Sam. Please don't blame yourself. I can't see how any of this would be your doing.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Being a bottle kid has NOTHING to do with this!

[prairiedog]

He is just nuts. Has nothing to do with how he was handled. Here he would be coyote food if I didn't have freezer space.

[Tallabred]

I had a dog like that - turned out to be a brain tumor. It is NOT your fault.

The ethnic groups look for goat meat - You could ask at a store that sells goat meat.

[Suzyq2u]

Oh no. So sorry!! Yes, I think I'd go with craig's list too : /

[beccachow]

I agree with others, I have seen a horse go insane due to a tumor. It is NOT your fault. Put him down quickly and humanely as your last gift to him. I am so sorry.

[AuntKitty]

I wouldn't even sell him on craigslist. What if he goes berserk again when they are trying to load him up and hurts someone on your property? I guess you could load him yourself and deliver him to the buyers at the butcher, but I don't know that I would even take that chance. Maybe you can find someone who would butcher him on site?

So sorry this has happened to you and hope you are feeling better soon.

Kitty

[ne prairiemama]

I'm sorry!!