Help, please. Miscarriage. Doe not doing well.

[bloogrssgrl]

It's been a while since I've been here but I need some input/ideas.

I have a doe (5yo) that has always been fine with kidding. Yesterday she miscarried a set of triplets. It was late in the day. I found the babies and the after birth was starting to be passed. She was alert and eating - seemed to be doing ok. I had to leave but I checked on her again later that evening and all still seemed well.

Today, not so much.

She is lying down, mostly, but in obvious discomfort. She will stand up to turn around but lies down again. She will give a push and grunt now and then. On some of the pushes a pinkish fluid will come out.

I called my vet. A total waste of time. He has no interest in coming to look at her. Told me these things are common, blah blah blah, and not to worry unless more of the goats start aborting. (!) His solution - give her 2cc of penecillin over three days. (This is a vet that focuses on cattle and has rarely been any help with the goats. I have no one else in the area to turn to.)

So I gave her the penecillin and also a dose of Banamine. She had a temp of 103.9 when I took it last.

Breathing is labored because she is in obvious discomfort.

Not interested in eating today.

Any ideas on what I should do next?

Thanks in advance for your input.

[KrisD]

First I would wash up lube up and go in and see if you feel anything there maybe another fetus in there that she can't get out, get some fluid down her she may be getting dehydrated- even if you have to do it by syringe full. Keep us posted I will do some more research. Hang in there

Kris

[bloogrssgrl]

Thanks, Kris. Was just coming to terms with the idea of doing that. Heading out again see what I can do. Will check back.

[mary,tx]

My first thought was hypocalcimia. Not liking her still pushing the next day. I don't know whether her cervix would be closed too much to check. But if not, checking is easier than you might think, if you haven't done it before.

[prairiedog]

Do you have any lute and oxy this long after she may be closed up and yo may need to re dialate her with the lute

[bloogrssgrl]

Ok, I tried to go in and check but can't my hand in very far. She immediately starts crying and pushing. As far as I could go, I couldn't not feel anything.

By the way, I have gone in with other goats to pull babies before, so it's not totally foreign - but, of course, never anything I look forward to doing.

I do have lute and was wondering if that shouldn't be the next step. When I pulled my hand out, the discharge had a sort of funky odor but, not knowing entirely what the normal smell of a goat's uterus is, it's hard to say if it's normal or not.

So what do you all think...should I give her the Lute?

[bloogrssgrl]

Update - I did some more internet research and decided to go ahead and give the Lute. Just administered 2cc IM.

Any idea how long it would take for this to do anything?

[KrisD]

Hmm My thought is a retained placenta that is starting to rot. I do not know how long the Lute will take hopefully others will chime in here. I do know that if the placenta is still in there and rotting if it doesn't come out you will lose her as she will become septic. She may be trying to push the placenta out. any does that I had that aborted always did fine so I have never had your situation. I will keep looking. Is her temp the same? You need to get antibiotics in her at this point.

[bloogrssgrl]

Update - temp is at 100.3. Still no interest in eating. Not making efforts as much to push. Still lying down mostly - stood up a few times but I think more out of discomfort. Brought her some warm water with Karo which she eagerly drank but only small sips at a time.

I did start her on penecillin today. Is there another antibiotic I should be using? I am limited to what is a carried at TSC plus a bottle of Nuflor.

At a total loss as to what to do for her at this point.

[mpete]

I think you have a doe going into ketosis (hypocalciemia)....
Give CMPK right now. Can be found also as MSO... 30 cc orally every 2 hours for the first day and night if possible, if not just 1 time a night, then 2 times a day, then 1 a day... Even if you see improvement. CONTINUE with the CMPK for a week
Without calcium the uterus cannot contract back to a normal size, controls heartbeat regularity, etc...
Give B complex for support care.
Stop the penecillin... you are only killing good bacteria
Encourage fluids... an goat drinks a gallon a day. Not a bad idea to give probiotics...

[mpete]

What were you feeding? How far along was she?

A lot of times, people will mistake a miscarriage for sickness whereas its just the body saying "I can't keep up with these babies anymore because I don't get enough calcium".

[chamoisee]

Had a doe like this. She would have died of infection if I hadn't taken her in to the vet who cleaned out the rotten placenta manually.

Are there vets farther away that you could drive her to?

[prairiedog]

Give the CMPK it will make her contract also as well as keep her out of hypocalcemia trouble. With the temp dropping act fast.

[bloogrssgrl]

mpete, our goats have free range of about 30 acres of brush and pastures, the pastures consisting of a mix of alfalfa, native grasses, birdsfoot trefoil, chickory, and some others I can't recall at the moment. We just started supplementing with an alfalfa mix about two weeks ago, but very minimal. The browse and pasture are still the overwhelming part of the diet. We haven't started them on grain yet. I was keeping an eye on the hay mix, watching out for mold and haven't seen anything yet, so I don't think that was the issue.

I believe she was about 3.5-4 months along in the pregnancy. The aborted kids seemed normal, no glaring malformations.

My concern about stopping the penecillin is that I don't know for sure if she ever passed the afterbirth. If she didn't, and an infection is starting, do I have other alternatives I should be trying?

Is the MSO/CMPK something I can find at Tractor Supply? Please forgive my ignorance on this - I have no idea what it is. The more guidance you can give me, the better.

chamoisee, there is another vet's office about an hour's drive away but, of course, tomorrow is Sunday and they won't be available. I tried calling them once before and they were very reluctant to see my animals. I got the feeling that there seems to be an understood territory among the vets and they hesitate to take on clients that are in an area covered by another vet. Words cannot describe my frustration with the whole vet situation at the moment.

Thanks again for the help, folks.

[chamoisee]

Will they see her today? Having rotten stuff in there seems to impair to doe's ability to clean out. I would call them frantically, tell them your vet refuses, show up with the goat in the trunk of your car crying if you have to, but she has got to be seen.

As a last resort you can try to force your way in and clean her out and then wash out her uterus with a douche that will flush the rest of the stuff out, which is essentially what my vet did. I don't know what exactly was in the fluid he washed her out with.

I had a doe that I did myself (it's probably in the archives somewhere, would have been around 2001 maybe??), and while she did recover (with LA 200 not penicillin) her milk production was down that year and she was never able to birth without a C section after that.

[bloogrssgrl]

chamoisee, I would have to research again to even find the vet. It was about a year ago that I called them. Plus, it's already after 6pm where I am so not likely to get anyone at the office at this time anyway.

I called my local TSC and they have a calcuim goat drench. I asked specifically about cmpk and mso and this was the best they could come up with. Figuring I've got over an hour's drive roundtrip. Heading there now to pick it up. Just took temp at it's at 99.3.

Depending on how things go, I may try to go in again. But if her cerivix isn't dialated, I don't know how much I do as far as flushing it out.

Will check back in...

[Cannon_Farms]

TSC carries both the injectable and the past its for cattle and is about 10 bucks.. give nufor 3cc per 100lbs

[chamoisee]

If nothing else, just use a mild saline solution and a funnel with tubing or a turkey baster to rinse out her uterus. Have her back end elevated when you put the liquid in, and then down for the exit of the solution. Rinse until you see no more smelly nasty stuff.

I don't think she is hypocalcemic, because rotten smelling stuff in the uterus would account for all her other symptoms.....so my opinion is that the calcium solution is useless for this situation. Can you call Vicki McGaugh?

[HappyFarmer]

Whoever it was posted the Lute & Oxytocin had it correct.

Give the lute, when dialated give the Oxy. The oxy will expel anything in there, and will start to work within 15 minutes or so after giving it, why you need the lute first.

After she's cleaned herself out you should indeed flush her uterus, then give la200 directly into the Uterus, you can inject IM also but in the uterus is where it is needed right now, and before she closes again.

If your doe makes it, she may never be fertile again....

Contact your vet for the lute & Oxy, sooner rather than later....her temp of 100 is not good. Keep her warm.

HF

[chamoisee]

If that place has anything you can mix up to clean her out....like an antibiotic solution or something...get that.

And if there are barn cats defecating in the hay, make them stop. Toxoplasmosis causes abortions and dead goat kids.