grain free

[TroutRiver]

Before anyone gets after me too much, let me explain a little.

I work at a farm that is well known in my area for selling high quality raw milk and grass fed beef. We have a store on farm and have a pretty well established customer base, people who come to the farm on a regular basis to buy milk and beef directly from us. Some of our customers are very picky about the milk that they buy. Lots have asked if we are grain free. We aren't. Our cows are pastured when there's grass to graze, and we feed hay, not corn silage, through the winter. But we do feed grain to the dairy cows, so we can't satisfy those customers who are looking for grain free milk.

I want to start selling some goat milk through the farm store this spring. I live right across the street on farm property (the goats are in my backyard), so it would be legal for me to sell the milk through their store. If I could sell 100% grass/forage fed raw goats milk, I think that would be an excellent addition to the store and would fill a very small but largely untapped niche market in the area. I know that my goats would not make as much milk without grain. But I have so many does freshening that I'm really not worried about that too much. I don't think I would sell more than a couple gallons of milk per day at the absolute most, and I think that is probably overestimating, but we'll see. I plan to sell it in quart jars.

I do know that goats need roughage more than grass. This will probably involve grazing mostly in the woods, and on the edges of some cow pastures. Am I totally crazy to think this could be a good idea?

[Wags]

I think it is a fine idea. My goats are grain free. They get alfalfa pellets and pasture/browse and if it is icy/snowy out then they get a good quality grass hay. Given your climate you will need to feed more hay than I do living in a milder climate. It is good that you have woods they can forage in, that will help develop their rumens as well.

I have found that transitioning adult goats to being grain free can cause a severe drop in production, but those under a year of age usually transition without a problem as their rumen is still developing anyway. If you pay attention to who milks well when grain free, you can breed for that. Older goats can make the switch it just takes awhile for them to develop a well functioning rumen.

I have Nigerians that are above average producers and they have never received grain. The vet professor at OSU commented on one of my 2 year olds that she had the most well developed rumen she had ever seen in a goat when we were doing ultrasounds this past February. And I think that is key - my gals all have HUGE rumens - so they always look a bit pregnant.

[TroutRiver]

My older does have only been fed grain when they are in milk. I do not feed grain when they are dry, and only a handful + alfalfa pellets for the last few weeks before kidding. I try to feed minimal grain, last year I fed only whole grains and a little cracked corn, no pellets. 3 of my FFs (there are 4 of them) have never had any grain at all, so they are probably great candidates. The 4th came from a farm where all kids were being fed free choice grain, but I weaned her off of the grain immediately when I brought her home (fed her a little for the first few days, then stopped) and didn't see any drop in body condition, which I think is a good sign.

[saanengirl]

It really depends on the breed and the quality of forage available. It would be very difficult to raise high producing Saanens in a grain-free system, but Nigerians could probably do very well in that kind of system. Your old-style Toggs might do ok as well: you know, the ones that are cobby and compact. Guernseys would also be good candidates for that type of management.

[chamoisee]

Originally Posted by TroutRiver

Before anyone gets after me too much, let me explain a little.

I work at a farm that is well known in my area for selling high quality raw milk and grass fed beef. We have a store on farm and have a pretty well established customer base, people who come to the farm on a regular basis to buy milk and beef directly from us. Some of our customers are very picky about the milk that they buy. Lots have asked if we are grain free. We aren't. Our cows are pastured when there's grass to graze, and we feed hay, not corn silage, through the winter. But we do feed grain to the dairy cows, so we can't satisfy those customers who are looking for grain free milk.

I want to start selling some goat milk through the farm store this spring. I live right across the street on farm property (the goats are in my backyard), so it would be legal for me to sell the milk through their store. If I could sell 100% grass/forage fed raw goats milk, I think that would be an excellent addition to the store and would fill a very small but largely untapped niche market in the area. I know that my goats would not make as much milk without grain. But I have so many does freshening that I'm really not worried about that too much. I don't think I would sell more than a couple gallons of milk per day at the absolute most, and I think that is probably overestimating, but we'll see. I plan to sell it in quart jars.

I do know that goats need roughage more than grass. This will probably involve grazing mostly in the woods, and on the edges of some cow pastures. Am I totally crazy to think this could be a good idea?

If you are talking about serious dairy goats, with serious production, then you would need to be feeding alfalfa free choice to make it possible. They lose weight and production otherwise.

[TroutRiver]

All of my FFs except for one are cross breeds with a little less than 1/4 boer, and the rest a mix of nubian/alpine/togg. I am not expecting them to be huge producers, but I am hoping that they will do well on minimal grain, or ideally no grain. My other FF is a purebred nubian from a conventional dairy farm. She may not be a good candidate for grain free. I do plan to feed alfalfa pellets whether I go grain free or not. I realize that I would need to feed more alfalfa without grain. Still pondering this and weighing the pros and cons. I have a couple more months to decide. Thanks for your input, everyone. Any more thoughts are welcome!

[chamoisee]

My opinion, you could do it....but I recommend feeding the alfalfa pellets free choice. I saw an article once that had an automatic feeder for alfalfa pellets...the author said that he was actually saving on the alfalfa pellets by doing this! Also I would still feed the black oil sunflower seeds.....that would help keep the flesh on the does as well as boosting the butterfat of the milk.

[Manchamom]

My girls milk very well on almost no grain. They have alfalfa pellets and they get beet pulp pellets for calories. Beet pulp contains the same amount of calories as oats only without the phosphorus inbalance and it is still a forage. Peas would be another thing to add nutrition and still be considered a vegetable.

[chewie]

might I ask why are the customers so intent on no-grain animals? and why are some breeds more tolerant with no grain than others?

[lonelyfarmgirl]

For those of you that are feeding no grain. what is the breed and how much milk are they giving?

[houndlover]

No grain or no corn? Oats, barley, wheat can be fed to "grass fed" animals and they are still considered "grass fed" because in the chemical composition, the seed head is the same as the stem. Most people who are looking for grain free are looking for the absence of soy and corn in the feed. Alfalfa is a legume, not a grass. Sunflower seeds are not a grass. My animals get zero corn, soy, and they produce as well as any goat fed a a dairy ration with corn in it.

[Alice In TX/MO]

I thought it was a cost saving strategy.

[LoneStrChic23]

I feed minimal grain to my milkers. The backbone of my feeding is alfalfa pellets, good minerals & the best quality hay I can find. My heavy milker gets a 12% grain mix (mostly oats) on the stand... I fill her feeder up & she typically only eats about a pound of grain each time (Alpine who milks well over a gallon per day at peak).

I personally wouldn't ditch the grain because I like my girls well conditioned & it's their reward for sharing that fabulous milk Alfalfa is for milk production, grain is calories to keep weight on..

My dry doe only gets alfalfa pellets & hay, no grain & shes chubby..... My growing kids all get 16% meat goat pellets in addition to hay & alfalfa....

[southerngurl]

I would feed pumpkins/carrots/other root crops in place of grain. I don't think forage alone will do it unless they are just so-so producers or poor producers.

[sammyd]

Oats, barley, wheat can be fed to "grass fed" animals and they are still considered "grass fed" because in the chemical composition, the seed head is the same as the stem.

not quite
there are standards out for grass fed

Grass (Forage) Fed – Grass and forage shall be the feed source consumed for the lifetime of the ruminant animal, with the exception of milk consumed prior to weaning. The diet shall be derived solely from forage consisting of grass (annual and perennial), forbs (e.g., legumes, Brassica), browse, or cereal grain crops in the vegetative (pre-grain) state. Animals cannot be fed grain or grain byproducts and must have continuous access to pasture during the growing season. Hay, haylage, baleage, silage, crop residue without grain, and other roughage sources may also be included as acceptable feed sources. Routine mineral and vitamin supplementation may also be included in the feeding regimen. If incidental supplementation occurs due to inadvertent exposure to non-forage feedstuffs or to ensure the animal’s well being at all times during adverse environmental or physical conditions, the producer must fully document (e.g., receipts, ingredients, and tear tags) the supplementation that occurs including the amount, the frequency, and the supplements provided.

the makeup of grains such as oats and barley are totally different during the stages of growth. I don't know how you can say the seeds are the same as the stems.
when the plant is in vegetative state (boot stage) it is a high protein and as the seeds develop it becomes more high energy.

[Wags]

Yes there is a savings in feed costs - once your pastures are in shape, and you really don't lose all that much in production IF you have good pasture management. But most importantly to me is the fact that just like free range chickens produce eggs with better nutritional values, so do goats and cows that are on a forge based diet.

"The less grain used, the greater the concentration of conjugated linoleic acid. Conjugated linoleic acid is a compound in milk that has been identified as being anticarcinogenic (prevents cancer)and antiatheroschlerotic (prevents the clogging of arteries). It is the only animal product that has been identified as an anticarcinogen." ~ FORAGE BASED DAIRY GOAT MANAGEMENT

Some other links/articles of interest:

Super Natural Milk
Is milk from grass-fed cows more heart-healthy?
Is All Butter Created Equal?
Greener Pastures
Barenbrug Seed - Browsemaster for goat pastures

[chamoisee]

Forgot- grass vs broadleaved plants......my experience is that they will pretty much starve on grass pasture even with grain, so you sure as heck shouldn't try it without grain. The pasture needs to be of high quality, preferably with legumes. I'm not saying there can't be grass in it, but they literally cannot eat enough fresh grass to sustain good production, because it is mostly water and silica.

[Wags]

Originally Posted by lonelyfarmgirl

For those of you that are feeding no grain. what is the breed and how much milk are they giving?

I have Nigerians, and my does are peaking between 4-6lbs a day. (roughly a 1/2-3/4 gallons a day). The all time record for one day milk test is 7lbs for Nigerians, so they are producing just fine with only pasture forage and alfalfa pellets. Butterfat content is running 6-8% during peak lactation.

[Wags]

Originally Posted by chamoisee

Forgot- grass vs broadleaved plants......my experience is that they will pretty much starve on grass pasture even with grain, so you sure as heck shouldn't try it without grain. The pasture needs to be of high quality, preferably with legumes. I'm not saying there can't be grass in it, but they literally cannot eat enough fresh grass to sustain good production, because it is mostly water and silica.

You must have pretty poor pastures in your area. When my pastures are at peak I only feed alfalfa pellets on the milk stand, and only the amount they can eat in the time it takes me to milk. They don't lose condition, and their production doesn't change. Of course my pasture is a mix of grasses, forbs and brushy plants too and I live where we have green growing grass most of the year too. (Grass seed capital of the world)

[billooo2]

From my experience, most people who want raw milk are either affiliated with or, at least, get their information from the Weston A Price Foundation. They sponsor a web site called, "Real Milk."
http://www.realmilk.com/

WAPF is a strong proponent of "grass-fed" milk and beef.

I called the national headquarters of the WAPF and asked if they also recommend that goats be "grass-only."

The gentleman that I spoke with said that they DO NOT recommend that goats be on a "grass-only" diet. In their opinion, most goats have difficulty maintaining their normal milk production and body condition.

I am not saying that it cannot be done, but I do not think that it is NOT good to just stop all grain without doing some very careful monitoring of the quality of the alternative approaches.

I have not seen any studies that actually document that there is an elevation of CL-4 in goat milk with decreased grain inputs. (I know it is well documented in cows, but I also know that "goats are NOT just MINIATURE cows.)

Besides, as someone else pointed out to me, goat milk is already the "good milk." For more information, the book is named, "The Devil in the MIlk."
http://thebovine.wordpress.com/2009/...-store-bought/