We have a slight improvement - sick buck

[HappyFarmer]

There's no prior thread, I havn't had time.

DH found one of my bucks on Sunday with one eye pure white. How the heck did that happen in just 24 hours? I thought oh geeze, pinkeye, where the heck did that come from (you don't have to answer that)? We've NEVER had pinkeye, mostly residential here. checked and it didn't look like an injury. He had his normal spring/fall slightly snotty nose from what we thought was his allergies. Wrong, read below.

Okay, stalled him with a buddy just off the pasture. Cozy, 4 enclosed wall but large divided 2-stall not good at retaining heat but no wind & dry, deeply bedded. Started the LA200, wiped the fluids off him with listerine, gave him F.B.Complex, and script antiobiotic eyedrops that I never used for a scratch on my eye. Temperature 102.5. Ground his teeth once while we were there. Didn't think much of it, he's very mellow and sometimes they do that, he didn't do it again while we were there.

Monday am Temperature 101.5. Hmm. Something else is going on along other than Pink Eye. He shouldn't be low. Banamine, LA200, Listerine, B vitatims, eyedrops, and additionally antitoxin.

Monday pm. temp 101.1. Repeat the above.
Tuesday am temp 99.6. Not good. Repeat same treatment as above, upped LA200 by 1cc. 6 or 7 kernels of cracked corn just to see if he's an appetite (because we can't monitor him as close as we'd like due to work & short days).

Tuesday pm temp 99.1. Worse. Shoot. Told hubby he's going downhill. In the morning I asked him to see if he was still with us before I drew the meds.

Wednesday am. 99.1. The same. Okay, we havn't lost anything, but havn't gained, though his eye looked like it was starting to darken up, the white was going away, I could see a bluish hue. Hmmm. Forced 1/4 c plain yogurt in his mouth. He's nibbling hay, not really interested in alf pellets. Water pail dirty from his mouth drool type gunk. 6 or 7 kernels of corn to test appetite.

Tonight. Temp 101.1!!! BUT DH heard some rasping....Hmmmm he was vaccinated for pnuomonia a month ago....Moved him to the heated barn/garage, 50 degrees, but no buddy not cleared out yet for kidding. Pulled out the Nuflor, Banamine, Listerine, eyedrops, FBComplex, antitoxin and that yogurt. Shoved 2 T down him then he started licking it himself. He drank a good quart of water while we watched. He's lost weight. Hay sticking out from his mouth, Alf pellets did not appear to be eaten. I can see the inner dark of his eye! Still cloudy whiteness, and red around the eyeball, but definate cornea I see.

He's not out of the woods yet. I have to stop the Banamine, switch to Dex & aspirin if he needs it, if he starts going downhill again Ill go back uclers be dar ned.

This buck is very mellow. Through all of these shots he never flinched. Doesn't move. That's just him. He's such a good boy, and his temperament can't be beat. He never really went down, I'm very thankful for that, and that hopefully he'll continue improving. I just don't know how good the Nuflor will work on the Pinkeye, though I'd rather have him lose an eye than succomb to respiratory issues.

The good thing is we have 4 days where we can be with him often rather than at work. We're hoping for some more improvement for the holiday.

HF

[Donna1982]

Hope he gets better soon.

[Ranger]

Sounds like you're doing everything you can for now. I hope he continues to improve. I once had a virus go through my sheep that had similar symptoms.

[mpete]

Sounds like he's got a good shot with you... additionally though, have you tried giving him hot water?

[HappyFarmer]

Thursday, Thanksgiving Morn: Temp 99.5. Com'n boy, don't do this to me.

Okay, Nuflor (upped it from 4.5 to 5.5 cc's), Antitoxin, FBcomplex, Listerine rub, and what appears to be the last of my eyedrops (MAYBE a few more drops for tonight if I'm lucky). Banamine discontinued. Vit E gelcap, no reason really, made me feel like I was doing something more.

No grinding of teeth while we were there. Poop clumpy pellets, brown his normal color. Peed some so he's drinking, 1/8 cup if that. Dirty water, filthy actually, so changed it. Think he's slobbering a LOT. His face & beard is very dirty, at high noon will wash his hair & beard off when it's warmer, that bacteria can't be good to keep on him, afraid to wash it when it's cold out though.

Offered him yogurt, 1/4 cup, he ate it all. Couple times there he went at it like a horse with an apple. It felt good to see that, but then slowed down but finished it. Going to put a plate out for free-feeding for him as soon as I get more.

Alfalpha pellets still there. Gave them to the chickens and offered fresh. He ate 10-12 from my hand, spit out 2 or 3, chewing slowly, then had a couphing fit. Shoot. He won't eat them wet. Left them there I hope that's not a mistake. Think I'll grind them in the blender.

Went searching for SOMETHING green, not much here. Saw the strawberry bed with a few stems sticking out from under the chicken litter I threw on it 2 weeks ago. Heck, he needs to eat. Offered him about 20 small leaves with stems, no older leaves visible. He ate them so they must not have been soiled (I can only hope, salmonella of course is a possibility! Dar n!). The only other greenery is the evergreen shrubs, 1' high. May try them when the strawberry leaves are gone. They are not yews, blue spruce type, don't think they are poisonous seen the goats grab them when walking by. Didn't notice any hay in his mouth.

Hear low "thudding" when he breathes. Breathing fast. Stomach concave forming that "V". He's still standing, not down. Think I mentioned he lost weight. DH says he heard a rumen sound, not sure if he's trying to give me hope or if he really did. I didn't hear it. I'll give him an hour and go push on his stomach & listen.

Wondering about his eye, if it's pinkeye at all or an injury causing stress other symptoms?? The behind part is the same color as his other, though slightly cloudy. Can get a better look at it now. Bottom 1/2 is still covered in a film of gunk, BUT I SEE SOMETHING. Picture a dabble of glue from a hot glue gun, that you put a oval stone in, gravity pulled it down, then you pulled the stone out. The lower part of his eye looks like that depression, with a flat part. I can't seem to tell if that depression goes into his round eyeball or not. The other thought is maybe his eye was sealed shut overnight? Any thoughts on this?

Going to search the med cabinet again, don't think I have any other script for optical, if I do it's really old. Any suggestions for optical treatments, either over the counter or homemade??? Saline solution? What are the proportions? CVS is open 24 hours, I think, may need to run out this morning.

Mpete no I didn't think of the warm water, not thinking clearly I guess, that's why I'm posting. Will start that for sure. Also dug out the electrolytes, don't have much, don't want to waste them he's dirtying his water so quickly. We're home for the weekend so we can offer small treated amounts of water & change often.

He doesn't seem stressed at all being alone, turned his head when we went in, but he's so mellow it's no different than normal. Checked the rest of the herd, no ill signs so far that's good. Received my LA200 from Jeffers, just in case i have to treat everyone. Nuflor only 1 bottle though. Kinda worried I have enough if "it" runs through the whole herd. I have plenty for him though.

I have to run out to the store for last minute supplies:
Pumpkin pie mix for DH's pies
Plain yogurt and Gatorade for my buck, and any suggestions for a new eye treatment? One grocery store is open this morning, closing midday sometime not sure when. I'm going to go within the hour.

Added: His eye is NOT reacting to a wave of my hand.

HF

[mpete]

It sounds like he is getting dehydrated... (the sunken sides is somethnign I have seen on the ones I have seen with dehydration. You can do a warm water enema... slowly to get instant absorbtion. Also get at least a gallon down him orally. Last time I was at the vet they told me that dehydration will cause more than the problem...
Have you ran a fecal? I know he has an eye problem, but you are right to think something else is going on. Worms take QUICK advantage of a weak body... Just last week, 2 animals, different herds, dead within 3 days from HC. Both came from owners with knowledge and parasite control (however 1 was safeguard, but that doesn't work on HC around here)
Question: are you giving probiotics? I may have missed it in your post. Also, are you giving the b both orally and sq? the b also helps keep the rumen going so its good to do both

[mpete]

If you could get lactator ringers in him to get fluids in that is the best way to hydrate

[mpete]

Just found this... don't know if it fits, but grasping at straws with you:

Mycotoxin - "Myco means fungus and toxin means poison" - a poisoning of an animal from a fungus growth normally in old hay or feed.

symptoms: Excessive salavation, depression, anorexia, convulsions, arched back

Treatment:Varies according to the source of problem. Remove the "bad" feed or hay from the animals immediately. Administration of activated charcoal may inhibit additional uptake of toxin from the gut. Mineral oil may help.

[HappyFarmer]

Well called the drugstore, just as I figured they wouldn't help direct for an injury. Call the vet, afraid to say anything though I can understand to some point. Generized treatment wether for animal or person over the counter, not a diagnosis was I asking for. Anyhoo they don't carry terrymycin - it's a script but not for people, which I kinda figured but had to try.

Decided the saline solution was not something I want in his eye....seems an injury instead of pinkeye??? See prior post for description. Decided to go with the LA200 directly in the eye in leiu of the eyedrops I am out of.

Temp 99.5 at 11:30. He likes the gatorade, though he is lapping it rather than really drinking/sucking it up. He did not eat any yogurt this time. Will check on him in a few hours.

Despite his temp still low, his horns feel warm, whereas for the past 2 days they have been cool, almost cold, even at the base. The base feels warm-enough for me to take his temp again for fever. No. 99.5.

He's still standing. Mpete I beleive you are correct. He's getting dehydrated. He HAD excess salivation, but not so now. No convulsions, back not arched. He has a small, quarter sized shiny discharge from the nose (not a drip, just thin the size of a quarter, shiny). better than it was though. Still noises. Still breathing hard. He is on antitoxin as a preventative, daily.

As far as toxins, the pasture is very safe....been pasture since 1910. Nothing poisoinous. Could be something moldy though, or mushrooms but with the cold I seriously doubt mushrooms. Hay is good, we buy from a local guy who has never let us down and we inspect every bale before feeding.

Yes fecals are run routinely here, few eggs but nothing of concern. They had their fall worming when their shots were given - ground is too cold for worms to hatch now also.

Yes, he is (or was) eating yogurt, 1/4 cup at a clip, better than probios in the respect it is something in his stomach. FBComplex injected, getting low though, hope tractor supply is open tomorrow. He went through a whole bottle & a half already. I could not get Thiamin the last time I tried to order....low supply I guess. Kicking myself for not trying every other week in case it came in.

I have 2 lactated ringers. Will administer SQ this afternoon.

Yes treating the eye but something more serious is going on also. Maybe a pnemonia not covered by the vac, I know there are many different strains.

What are your thoughts on the eye?

No better but temp lower than last night by 1 degree. Wonder what's up with the fluxuation like that.

HF

[mpete]

A friend just recently went through an eye problem... same as yours... just white... After a run to the vet, they showed her it was actually the inner eyelid that had closed over it after the eye had gotten some abrasions. They said to keep up with the eye ointment... and also said that "tomorrow" for mastitis is also a good treatment for eye issues. It takes weeks for the eyes to get better if it was an injury.

If he is dealing with some kind of respiratory issue, then keeping him hydrated will help keep the other issues dealt with. I think he will feel a lot better after he gets fluids into him.

To help his body temp: warm water enema: you can also put the b in it for quick absorption... remember the brain has to have it in order to function properly. Do you have a heat lamp or other source of heat for him? He will be spending a lot of needed recovery energy on heating himself so anything can help.

You can use Human B if you have nothing else.

[Jcran]

Banamine will also suppress the temp so that may have been due to the meds versus something else. Its good to push the fluids but have they been warmed first?

[mpete]

Nevermind this post... it also has a high fever as a smptom



Does any of this fit?
Encephalitic form - In the brain. The bacteria enters through breaks in the oral mucosa and migrate to the brain. Signs are:
Incoordination
Circling in the same direction
Seizures
Hind lib paralysis
Facial nerve disorders
Excessive salivation
Slack jaw
Impaired swallowing
Cornea inflammation

[HappyFarmer]

Jcran we're going to find out, his last Banamine was last night - he's reached his limit for fear of ulcers. Surely would have worn off by now. We just started the heated liguids.

We opened up the heated garage/barn as soon as we realized it was more than just the eye. Temp is set at 50, concrete but plenty of hay for a barrier.

Can't think of what to use for the enema. Will a syringe be long enough? What about a bulb syringe, it wouldn't be a slow release though. Any other ideas to administer it?

No "Tomorrow" on hand - meat goats-we don't see mastitis issues. I read fresh milk is good for an eye injury too - noone in milk though. Guess LA200 it will be.

I have enough FBvitamins for tonight & tomorrow morning. Tomorrow tractor supply or B vitamins at the drug store.

Heading back down before more company arrives. He's in for some lactated ringers, yogurt, and more electrolytes this trip. One thing I can say was extremely helpful to us is a headband lamp. It helps us to see his eye against his black head - just a note for others trying to stock their medicine bag, lots of rubber gloves, too, we are going through 4 every treatment.

HF

[mpete]

Question: Was he acting fine before you put him in the barn? the reason I ask is you say it had "deep bedding" .... Is it "possible" there may have been some mold spores in it?

I'm only asking because I am trying to grasp at the same straws you are...

[mpete]

I have used a syringe... You have to put it in slowly for good absorption

[HappyFarmer]

Encephalitis symptoms from your list:

Flappy lower jaw - kind of, it hangs down when he tries to grab the paper plate or mouth my fingers with the yogurt. He does grab though, just seems flappy.

Excessive salivation - was the first or 2nd day only - this is day 4 1/2.
Seemingly impaired swallowing - (he choked on alf pellets) Havn't seen him eat his hay today. Am going to pick more strawberry leaves if I can find some before it gets dark.

Not sure on the cornea inflamation - seems enlarged but not ulcerated. Red around eyeball.

Doesn't seem like a fit to the symptoms listed.

HF

[mpete]

Originally Posted by HappyFarmer

Encephalitis symptoms from your list:

Flappy lower jaw - kind of, it hangs down when he tries to grab the paper plate or mouth my fingers with the yogurt. He does grab though, just seems flappy.

Excessive salivation - was the first or 2nd day only - this is day 4 1/2.
Seemingly impaired swallowing - (he choked on alf pellets) Havn't seen him eat his hay today. Am going to pick more strawberry leaves if I can find some before it gets dark.

Not sure on the cornea inflamation - seems enlarged but not ulcerated. Red around eyeball.

Doesn't seem like a fit to the symptoms listed.

HF

Ya, I didn't think so after I had finished reading everything

[HappyFarmer]

No, don't think so, it was a fresh, unused except for storage of concrete Wall-making thingy's. The dirt stall was filled 4 days before & used as a breeding stall. Those does being bred only had 4 days with the buck before I kicked them out for him. It is large (double enclosed), 25 x 10 maybe. One side anchor fence, then large double door open to the pasture. He's now in the heated barn.

Got it - 6cc here we come.

HF

[mpete]

It takes a long time to get it all in, but try to get atleast a pint in, and then get more in later...

[Minelson]

HF..if anyone can figure it out and pull him through it is you. Just want to send you lots of healing vibes for a fast recovery. I'm thinkigning about you and pulling for your buck. I have learned so much from you here and so thankful. Wish I could help. The only thing I have to offer is be careful with any eyemeds...make sure there are no steroids in it. Nothing labled Dex of HC (hydrocortisone) because IF there is a scratch or ulcer steroids will make it worse. ((((hugs)))))