copper..revisited.

bee · #1 10/21/11, 10:43 AM

Can you give goats too much copper or will they just excrete extra?

Is a copper bolus a solid piece of copper that stays(where?) in the goats digestive system and dissolves over time?

I have soild copper wire in several guages...can I make copper dust and just add this to their mineral mix that I put in their feed?(I would make sure any coatings on the wire were sanded off first!

!)

All this talk of "fish tails", faded colors and hair loss in specific areas has me really concerned that my goats need copper and being newly aware of this need(last time I had goats I was not on this forum)I have nothing for a hands on comparision. To me my goats look fine and healthy! But I sure tried to get a better look at the ends of their tails this morning when I fed....even my curled tightly over his back bucks' tail.

These are Nigerian Dwarfs; buck, doeling,and wether born this spring. Pregnant doe due in one month born spring 2010.
For a diaognistic I could post pics..if the sun ever comes back out...??

HappyFarmer · #2 10/21/11, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bee

Can you give goats too much copper or will they just excrete extra?

Copper Toxitity can be an issue. They will not excrete the extra, they will harbor it in their liver until overload then excrete it suddenly and die. This can take a long time...like a year or so I'd have to look up the study figures to be sure.Is a copper bolus a solid piece of copper that stays(where?) in the goats digestive system and dissolves over time?

The coper bolus are little rods of varying sizes & weights that gets stuck in the folds of the goats stomach(s). Yes they dissolve over time.I have soild copper wire in several guages...can I make copper dust and just add this to their mineral mix that I put in their feed?(I would make sure any coatings on the wire were sanded off first!

!)

I guess you can do this, I guess you can do a lot of things, however it is NOT advisable. If you cannot afford to buy the inexpensive copper bolus's then take your copper wire/tubing what have you and place it in the bottom of their water bucket, it is better than nothing. Several members on the forum sell individual bolus's.

All this talk of "fish tails", faded colors and hair loss in specific areas has me really concerned that my goats need copper and being newly aware of this need(last time I had goats I was not on this forum)I have nothing for a hands on comparision. To me my goats look fine and healthy! But I sure tried to get a better look at the ends of their tails this morning when I fed....even my curled tightly over his back bucks' tail.

These are Nigerian Dwarfs; buck, doeling,and wether born this spring. Pregnant doe due in one month born spring 2010.
For a diaognistic I could post pics..if the sun ever comes back out...??

So, do they have fishtails, faded coats or raccoon eyes? Do they have minerals free-choice?HF

Alice In TX/MO · #3 10/21/11, 11:47 AM

The copper in the water pan idea isn't successful. Copper does NOT dissolve in water. It takes MONTHS for those tiny pieces to dissolve in the goats' digestive systems!

Get boluses. Yes, you can top dress their feed with the contents of the bolus, but be SURE each goat gets her own dose.

HappyFarmer · #4 10/21/11, 12:03 PM

From what I understand, the acidity of the water changes the amount of copper that is leached, so it would be variable.

I think the studies I've read were from copper pipes in houses, water that was in contact for over 8 hours or something like that. Our goats have ponds & streams, so never really followed up on the copper leaching thing.
I also agree it probably isn't enough.

Still, if they need copper, your best bet is to buy the bolus's & dose by weight.

HF

nehimama · #5 10/21/11, 03:00 PM

Many of us use the bolus. It's a gelcap filled with tiny copper rods. It's administered (normally) with what's called a "balling gun".

Picture here: http://www.pbsanimalhealth.com/detai...s/365-877.html

You can normally find balling guns at your feed store.

Copasure bolus shown here: http://www.jefferslivestock.com/copa.../LIV/cp/16535/

The gelcap gets the copper rods to where they need to go, and dissolves, leaving the tiny copper bits to lodge in the folds, and dissolve over time. (I have never found Copasure at any feed store. I've always ordered them online.)

Hope this was helpful.

dbarjacres · #6 10/21/11, 07:27 PM

I can not get my nigerians to take the little bolus' without my fingers getting munched in the process, so just this weekend, I've started mixing the copper oxide little wires in with a small amount of sweet feed. They ate it right up.

Vicki on DGF has been experimenting with this and her liver copper levels are showing as good as bolusing.

HappyFarmer · #7 10/21/11, 08:09 PM

We don't bother with the caplets either.

I weighed up the grams and marked the outer part of a syringe. I measure the rods & dump it towards the back of the tongue. Works great. I find a 6cc syringe shell works better than a 3cc syringe shell. They end up chewing a few but most gets down whole.
HF

hardworkingwoman · #8 10/21/11, 11:40 PM

I have been giving mine the copper in their food. Is that ok? Just a sprinkle about one time a week.

HappyFarmer · #9 10/22/11, 07:07 AM

It depends on what kind of copper you are giving. If you are giving the copper bolus rods one time a week that will not be okay. If you are giving the blue copper sulfite once a week that is more like the dose needed.

Copper bolusing is meant for a long-term release. Each of us are different, some re-dose at 6 months some at a year. Depends on the symptoms the goats are showing & the amount they are receiving elsewhere.

HF

Alice In TX/MO · #10 10/22/11, 07:49 AM

HappyFarmer, I don't think you meant copper bolus rods once a week. That would be a severe over dose potential.

If you use the boluses, either as a bolus or removing the contents and feeding it, once every three or four months is the normal frequency.

HappyFarmer · #11 10/22/11, 07:57 AM

Alice, you are correct, let me re-word it, as you did also.

Copper sulfite (blue granules) are often top dressed approx 1x week. They are passed through the system quickly, only somewhat absorbed, and do NOT lodge in the stomach(s).

Copper bolus (rods) are given, depending on deficiency, 3-12 months apart. (6 months here). The rods lodge in the stomach(s) and release slowly.

I apologize if I confused anyone, thanks Alice for pointing it out.

HF