Issues with anatomically incorrect female doe

[Alice In TX/MO]

I have a very small Mini-LaMancha female, 18 months old, who is not anatomically correct. She has no separate anus and vulva. She has never been observed to have a heat cycle. There's no way to tell if she's a complete female inside, i.e. ovaries, uterus, etc. Soft structures like ovaries won't show up on X-rays, so there's no way to tell what female organs are present.

She is a member of the herd to serve as a companion to her mother, who is *low goat* on the pecking order. I had no intention of breeding the little doe at all, but the bucks escaped 11 days ago (before the Buck Palace construction) and got into the doe pen.

A couple of questions:

1. Should I go ahead and administer Lute, assuming that she *could* have been bred?

2. Is it possible to have her spayed (if she even has ovaries) to prevent this worry in the future?
The local veterinarian isn't interested in even making an attempt.

Thank you for your ideas on this.

[Goat Servant]

No experience with this but I would think nature would take it's course? IE possibly no ovaries so she wouldnt settle??

[yarrow]

I've heard of someone having a spay on goat (maybe after a c-section ?) but it wasn't anyone local.... best bet would be a vet school. (if we were still living in Oklahoma and need to try to spay one, I'd be calling OSU.. they did experimental surgery on my mom's cat.. back when I was a kid... rare condition, no local vet would attempt...they saved the cat!!!)

I would go a head and LUTE her (just to be safe)... you will need to wait at least 11 to 14 days from the day she may have been bred.. (I have Lute, if you don't.. come get some)

((Goat Servant ..with her being plumbed *weird* on the outside.. NO WAY would I risk letting her attempt to vaginally deliver.. especially a little mini.. EVEN if she did get pregnant.. She is a JUST a pet & companion))

susie

[andabigmac]

Would your vet in Texas attempt a spay? I would Lute her and then call your TX vet and see if he/she would help you when you go back. How different could it be from a dog or cat? I know goats have crazy metabolisms and are more worrisome to put out but its still done all of the time.

Would you be willing to post a picture of her anatomical incorrectness as a learning tool? I've never seen anything like that.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Sure, I'll see if I can get a pic.

One of the bucks that got out was an Alpine, and the doe is a SMALL Mini-Mancha. Absolutely can't risk her go to term, *if* she's bred.

Thanks, Susie, but I got lute at the place you recommended in West Plains yesterday. (They were wonderful.) Today is day 12, and I'm going to give her the lute tomorrow to be sure enough time has passed.

I just sent an email to Texas A & M's sheep and goat department asking for info on possible spaying. I'll let you know if I hear anything from them.

[KrisD]

Have you ever had an ultrasound done to see what parts she did have? It would give you good idea of whether or not to worry so much. I would lute too. I would definitely listen to Susie the Vet schools can do a spay.

[HappyFarmer]

Personally I wouldn't bother taking her to the university, nor spaying her. Yes my reasons are because of money.

I would lute her though, never know maybe~ a fertized egg couldl end up somewhere enroute to or past the uterus that isn't there. Happens in people why couldn't it happen in goats???

Reasoning:
You normally do not run the bucks with the does. 2cc of lute will take care of this potential issue. You built such a nice buck pen back on the other thread, I doubt they will be escaping again. If one happens to escape, just lute again. Far less expensive for a non-productive goat you will never see an ROA on, even if you have to lute several times over her lifetime.

HF

[copperpennykids]

Originally Posted by HappyFarmer

Personally I wouldn't bother taking her to the university, nor spaying her. Yes my reasons are because of money.

I would lute her though, never know maybe~ a fertized egg couldl end up somewhere enroute to or past the uterus that isn't there. Happens in people why couldn't it happen in goats???

Reasoning:
You normally do not run the bucks with the does. 2cc of lute will take care of this potential issue. You built such a nice buck pen back on the other thread, I doubt they will be escaping again. If one happens to escape, just lute again. Far less expensive for a non-productive goat you will never see an ROA on, even if you have to lute several times over her lifetime.

HF

What Happy Farmer said.

[kasilofhome]

Ok, Lute seems to be something a goat herder should have on hand. I am at a lost as to where I can get it. Is it an "over the counter" or scrip. Does it go by another name when ordering? I have a few does that I have as companions and I too have goats that do NOT practice safe sex. Timing is everything.

If luting would help you doe I would do it if I had the stuff. I am also requesting a photo for education reasons. Odd things like this are important to know about.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Prescription. Luckily, the local vet's office in West Plains knows goat folks are independent and sold me some without hesitation.

I will have to try again on pictures. I took two outside and the sun/shade combination prevented good pics.

[CarolT]

Yes, they can attempt a spay, ultrasound isn't always 100%, especially if they're undersized or not in the normal place (which doesn't always mean they can't function) and not sure on the lute because I'm not sure what the chemical action is. Would it hurt a buck? If yes, I'd get an official opinion first.

Most herbivores don't do well with anaesthesia, that's why most vets avoid major surgery if they can. It depends on what this girl is worth to you. It can get very expensive

Again, JMO YMMV

[Alice In TX/MO]

One more thing. I hate that you can't change the subject lines of threads after you post them.

Female doe? Well, DUH!

Sorry about that. Brain isn't always well connected to fingers on the keyboard.

[victory]

Problem with local vets is anesthesia with goats gets tricky. That long neck makes it hard to intibate, goats continue to ruminate under anesthesia, so they are hard to perform surgery on as they have to hang their head down so they don't drown in the rumen. We have lost several goats under anesthesia at the clinic i worked at. It is tricky business. Seems like a few Large animal vets are starting to get more interested in Goat surgery and getting more proficient at it. Personally I would find a good school for her to go to or just sell her as a pet..

[Alice In TX/MO]

No, no. Selling not an option. Keeping the bucks in the new Buck Palace (see other post) and keeping Lute on hand is better.

[farmmom]

Originally Posted by KrisD

Have you ever had an ultrasound done to see what parts she did have? It would give you good idea of whether or not to worry so much. I would lute too. I would definitely listen to Susie the Vet schools can do a spay.

I agree with the ultrasound. All the structures will be visible this way.

[julieq]

Alice I'm pretty certain our vet would do a spay without any hesitation. He's done a couple of C sections over the years for us, lots of dehorning (scurs) under general and had to put one of our Alpines under general to scope her (she had a cockle bur stuck and couldn't swallow correctly). They all did fine and he's SO confident to jump right in and take care of our goats just like he would our horses or other animals.

I'd check with another vet for sure.

[mpete]

I had my doe spayed to try to save her life (her uterus tore during an attempted birthing). She was a Kinder. The surgery here in itself was around $250. There were several times where we had to really jump on our feet because the anethesia works different in rumenants, but I am not sure exactly why.

[Laverne]

If I had her I'd wait till pregnancy can be detected with a blood sample at Biotracking, I think it is about a month pg. With the abnormality it would be interesting if she did settle, then she could be luted if she was.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Ah, too late. Gave her the shot yesterday. That would have been a good idea!