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09/11/11, 06:42 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Well, you didn't say on HT your doe had a major overbite.
This is a major fault in any breed of goat, for the simple fact the teeth to not meet the dental pad and they can't chew their food! Where did you get this doe from? Was she a rescue?
It seems this is far too big an issue for fellow goat owners to guide you in fixing. As has been stated many times here & on that other thread, you need a vet.
The vet may be able to treat that infected tooth, but I daresay the overbite is not fixable to my knowledge (even if it was it would be expensive). If the teeth are loose to boot she is not in good shape.
Being your pet you may have the energy and time to hand-feed her soft foods etc. as you are doing, but her inability to chew is, eventually if it hasn't already screw up her rumen. It is only a matter of time as I've stated before.
Honestly? I would put this girl down. She is a good example of what breeders should NOT be breeding for, and your struggles with her are WHY they should not be breeding for this.
Not what you want to hear, but you asked so there it is.
HF
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09/11/11, 07:33 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NE Georgia
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I think the overbite would only hinder eating certain kinds of foods, like browse and pasture---no need for soft foods just because of that. But I wouldn't breed her because of the overbite.
However, the molar, if it's infected, would be more serious because that would hinder her from chewing most anything. If she's a pet, I'd see if the vet could check that tooth and if infected, remove it. If that's the problem then she should be OK as long as she isn't on browse or pasture. Just my opinion.
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09/11/11, 08:45 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Soggy yet beautiful Oregon
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Looks like an under bite to me, that would explain why she is having trouble eating...
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09/11/11, 09:31 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Kansas
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Actually, it's and under bite since it's the lower jaw that over extends. It would explain why she was having trouble eating if she has always had trouble eating. If her trouble is recent (not sure how old the goat in question is) then it very well could be the tooth. Either way, I would not use her as a breeding animal with a bite like that unless I needed the milk and planned to put every baby in the freezer.
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09/11/11, 09:53 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 9,208
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I would get someone to look at her teeth, especially the black one. If she has a painful tooth, she will not eat right and will go downhill despite everything you try. Usually once the tooth is removed they start eating fine again.
I had an older Nubian doe who I noticed was suddenly very slow at eating and was dropping weight. Checked and one tooth was rotten and loose. Everything she took into her mouth moved that tooth and caused her great pain. I got some help and removed the tooth. The next day she was eating normally and rapidly gained the lost weight back.
The bite issue is going to effect her ability to eat *some*, but I have seen goats with such a bite issue live long happy lives.
I would get that tooth looked at right away.
__________________
Emily Dixon
Ozark Jewels
Nubians & Lamanchas
www.ozarkjewels.net
"Remember, no man is a failure, who has friends" -Clarence
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09/11/11, 09:54 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Oologah Oklahoma
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I could be wrong but I believe she said this started a few months ago so the under bite wouldn't be the main problem. That one tooth looks horrible. I personally would get her to a vet.
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09/11/11, 10:14 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: West Texas-we had rain!!
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I have a very dear,old goat that has an under-bite. He has no problem staying chunky.No special diet-except cardboard. He will chase down a cardboard box and gobble that up if any blow in.So the bite itself probably isn't the problem.
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09/12/11, 12:11 AM
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Farming with a Heart
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Huntington WV
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For those suggesting putting her down, never breeding her - consider the 2011 ADGA Reserve Champion's bite - lol - GCH RISIN’ CREEK THERE SHE IS
Now - if the doe can't eat and is having pain, that is another story. . .also, not seeing the rest of the doe - there might be many things
wrong and so forth. . .
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09/12/11, 11:47 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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How very sad that this goat earned a title with such an obvious fault.
Imagine if all breeders aimed for these traits, there would be no functionality whatsoever in the dairy industry, we'd all be syringing soup into our goats.
It's not just the dairy industry, it is the meat industry also.
Shame on that judge and shame on ADGA for supporting such a fault.
HF
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09/12/11, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happyfarmer
how very sad that this goat earned a title with such an obvious fault.
Imagine if all breeders aimed for these traits, there would be no functionality whatsoever in the dairy industry, we'd all be syringing soup into our goats.
It's not just the dairy industry, it is the meat industry also.
Shame on that judge and shame on adga for supporting such a fault.
Hf
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hear hear!!!!!!!
I
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09/12/11, 04:37 PM
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Caprice Acres
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: MI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creamers
For those suggesting putting her down, never breeding her - consider the 2011 ADGA Reserve Champion's bite - lol - GCH RISIN’ CREEK THERE SHE IS
Now - if the doe can't eat and is having pain, that is another story. . .also, not seeing the rest of the doe - there might be many things
wrong and so forth. . . |
Ick! Really? I tried looking close to see if she just was making a face or something - it looks like a true underbite. Shouldn't that be a DQ?
__________________
Dona Barski
"Breed the best, eat the rest"
Caprice Acres
French and American Alpines. CAE, Johnes neg herd. Abscess free. LA, DHIR.
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09/12/11, 05:26 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Kansas
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First of all, we really shouldn't post goats on here that aren't ours. How would you feel if you went to a forum and found out someone had posted a pic of your goat and everyone was saying bad things about it. I know that is not the reason for posting the pic, but that is what is happening. (unless the goat is your's Creamers, in which case I would have to congratulate you on such a nice doe)
Second, from what I understand, its a common flaw in Nubians and can become more pronounced as they get older. It's not as if only one judge made that doe the champion she is.
Last edited by Oat Bucket Farm; 09/12/11 at 05:31 PM.
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09/12/11, 06:10 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Point well taken, Oat Bucket. The doe does look very nice, however I disagree with ADGA's standing on the acceptability of flawed jaws.
What I found online regarding overbite/underbite flaws & judging:
"Undershot or Overshot Jaw: Does not permit proper feed intake and chewing of food, slight to serious discrimination, depending on degree of seriousness."
If ADGA would move this up on the discrimination ladder, perhaps there would be more of a reason for breeders to work towards correcting this. Ultimately ADGA is saying that udders & milk performance is of utmost importance and its perfectly fine to achieve that at the expense of the goats ability to eat. That is what is sad.
I've seen registries put a more stringent statement in their standard regarding dips in the spine & cow-hocks, and breeders stepped up to the plate correcting these flaws with each generation. As it stands Nubian breeders have no incentive to correct the issues, other than the fact their goats may not thrive on anything other than processed foods.
HF
Last edited by HappyFarmer; 09/12/11 at 06:18 PM.
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09/12/11, 07:36 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Missouri
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The rest of that Nubian is truly lovely.
Teeth are sometimes visible in the breeds with roman noses. While it is not something you want, its just one more thing to breed away from, like saggy udders, or my bane in my herd, large teats.
__________________
Emily Dixon
Ozark Jewels
Nubians & Lamanchas
www.ozarkjewels.net
"Remember, no man is a failure, who has friends" -Clarence
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09/12/11, 09:32 PM
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Melody
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central Indiana
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My goat Kissee has an underbite, it isn't painful and doesn't affect her ability to eat. Her appraisal scores are really good and she doesn't pass the trait on to her kids. I do plan to breed her but we don't plan to sell or show the kids. I doubt the breeder would have sold her if she didn't have that flaw
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Solstice Sun Farm- Nubian goats, heritage poultry, soaps, and upcycled crafts
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09/13/11, 01:18 AM
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Farming with a Heart
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Huntington WV
Posts: 1,864
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Quote:
First of all, we really shouldn't post goats on here that aren't ours. How would you feel if you went to a forum and found out someone had posted a pic of your goat and everyone was saying bad things about it. I know that is not the reason for posting the pic, but that is what is happening. (unless the goat is your's Creamers, in which case I would have to congratulate you on such a nice doe)
Second, from what I understand, its a common flaw in Nubians and can become more pronounced as they get older. It's not as if only one judge made that doe the champion she is.
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Can't say I agree - this photo is listed openly on the facebook page by the ADGA - this is an education for folks saying put a doe down, etc, because of something another doe was made a GCH for - the doe is a lovely doe and the bite has long been hashed out on forums all over the internet. When you compete in such a public way, you understand critiques will be made in a public way.
Heads count for only a pittance of the score of a doe - love it, hate it or whatever it may be. . .that is how it is.
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bane in my herd, large teats
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Emily, do you find this a real fault as long as the udder is well attached? We have large teats here, but man, I would NEVER want to milk anything else - lol
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09/13/11, 07:13 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 9,208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creamers
Emily, do you find this a real fault as long as the udder is well attached? We have large teats here, but man, I would NEVER want to milk anything else - lol
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No, I like a good-sized teat to milk. I just don't like the kind that keep growing! My first Lamancha had large teats, and passed it on to her first daughter. But so far(choosing bucks from smaller teat background), she has not passed that on to hers.
I chose a smaller-teated buck to breed my foundation doe her next time and those two daughters have perfect-sized teats in my opinion. 
But I'll take a large teat over milking a small teat anyday! Course, I milk by hand.
__________________
Emily Dixon
Ozark Jewels
Nubians & Lamanchas
www.ozarkjewels.net
"Remember, no man is a failure, who has friends" -Clarence
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09/14/11, 08:46 AM
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aka RamblinRoseRanc :)
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Morristown, TN
Posts: 5,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creamers
Can't say I agree - this photo is listed openly on the facebook page by the ADGA - this is an education for folks saying put a doe down, etc, because of something another doe was made a GCH for - the doe is a lovely doe and the bite has long been hashed out on forums all over the internet. When you compete in such a public way, you understand critiques will be made in a public way.
Heads count for only a pittance of the score of a doe - love it, hate it or whatever it may be. . .that is how it is.
Emily, do you find this a real fault as long as the udder is well attached? We have large teats here, but man, I would NEVER want to milk anything else - lol
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I agree with Creamers. If the photo is made public then it should be expected that the public will be able to view and comment on it. If the owner has no thicker skin than that, then they should keep their animals out of the public eye.
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" It's better to ride even if you get thrown, than to wind up just wishin' ya had."
Chris Ledoux 
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09/14/11, 10:09 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,300
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Quote:
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If the photo is made public then it should be expected that the public will be able to view and comment on it.
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If this is true then you could go to any ones website copy and paste a picture of a doe or buck, post it to a forum, and have everyone critique it? And this is acceptable?
As far as the goat, that abscessed tooth needs to be dealt with, and I believe your problem with eating would be solved.
Last edited by coso; 09/14/11 at 10:50 AM.
Reason: Added something pertaining to original thread !!
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