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  #1  
Old 09/02/11, 02:07 AM
Farming with a Heart
 
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Am I REALLY to blame? ? ? :(

Okay. . .

An acquaintance was looking to buy two wethers from a tested herd.

Another acquaintance I’d purchased doelings from in the winter that came
With the whole herds CL/CAE/Johnnes testing had so many bucklings born
(she has 100 or so), she offered me a few free NIGI bucklings out of a Ch Buttinheads
buck. I was very happy to get them. She said she’d like to find homes for a few more –

I told acquaintance #1 that I’d recommend emailing this woman because I knew they had
Clean testing, I was thrilled with my doelings from them and was getting 2 bucklings myself.
I told her they would be low cost or even free.

Because they had never had bucklings, I offered to let the fellow HT friend picking up mine
Bring back some for acquaintance #1 and getting them onto the bottle (none were bottle babies)
For her. She said she’d rather pick out hers and made plans to meet the breeder at her farm 3 plus hours
Away.

That was that on my end, I thought.

Sooo I thought.

I get mine right after and they are thin and have the snots. The condition wasn’t what I expected, but they
Were from a clean herd and very well bred and well made. . . I knew I could turn them around without much issues
And have done so.

I honestly didn’t expect all of the kids to be like that and didn’t even get in touch with acquaintance #1 because she
Said she was going there to pick her outs. I figured she’d pick out what she wanted. She went about 2 weeks later.

I’d seen photos of the herd – the does and kids all looked nice, and of course, I’m recalling how nice my doelings from last
Winter were, and the HT friend of mine that went to the breeders farm said there were tons of goats but that
The barn and area was clean and nice.

So I get a text from acquaintance #1 that she got 6 kids – 6!!! She’d paid $250 for all.
She bought a doeling and got 5 bucklings – thinking she’d
Wether the boys. The 6th was for a HT friend of mine here – acquaintance #1 didn’t know her, but the breeder remember
The friend asked for one and sent the extra one back.

I get an email the next morning that says the kids don’t look healthy. I offer to come over the hour trip to bring a med bag and
See what I think.

The condition was poor on all, very bad on 2 in particular. The HT friend said she didn’t want the kid if he was sick –
He was sick, but he was better than the rest. . . I told acquaintance #1 the Homesteading Today friend hadn’t wanted him if he
Was still sick and the breeder wasn’t really supposed to send him if he was – I told her since the kids were for her children –
She might want to hang onto him incase the 2 very sick ones died. I told her it was coccidia and brought dimethox powder – gave
Her bo-se for all, wrote down a to do list, including get a fecal. Trimmed some of their hooves, too. I showed her how to get the non
Bottle babies to take the bottle and told her to go to a local herd for real milk – cae free- instead of whole milk. I have her about $40 worth
Of meds and declined any money until she insisted a few times and took the $50 for the gas and meds.

I did feel very bad about their condition – that WASN’T what I expected or she expected. . .

So it has went on for 2 weeks – texts and emails about this being my fault – ½ said in jest and ½ quite serious, and I didn’t know what to say.
She’d say how this had brought disease to her farm and I’d explain cocci is everywhere and need controlled and it was nothing her chickens and horses could get
From them. . . Didn’t matter what I said. She was mad a few had scurs - decided that made the breeder terrible too - no excuse for scurs. I explained with bucks - it does happen.

I have offered many suggestions – the kids are improving.

She’d asked me to band them. I said I would and would bring banamine.

She then sent a message about realizing it wasn’t humane and that she’d take them to a vet. But the costs already incurred were brought
Up over and over in the past few weeks, and I hated for her to be out more money and tried to explain the banding is really quite fine. . .

She opted to have them surgically done yesterday. . . the vet wouldn’t do the one because he is so anemic and did another fecal
And said the cocci is still out of control.

I got a message that blamed me for all of this and how she had trusted me and should have known better and so on. . .that she’d been stuck with the 6th one even though I
Texted her the next day and told her I’d take him myself and she declined because the kid wanted to keep all of them. She said the breeder said she’d give the money back and take
Them back, but she didn’t think the breeder would keep them alive. She wanted me to message the breeder and tell her how sick they were. . .so she’d stop killing goats. . .

I finally went into a whole thing about having recommended them based on what I knew of the herd and my experience at the time and that she had made the trip
And opted, after seeing the condition (though she met the breeder somewhere, I found out, not on the farm), to get all 5 (6) . . .I didn’t feel it was fair to blame me or
Act as if I can’t be trusted or that my judgment is off, and I recommended she return them –

My question is . . . Is this my fault? I have no idea – but I don’t feel I should be blamed, esp. in this way. . . though I do feel bad it didn’t go very well. . .

Here are the photos of my doelings from her last winter and followed by the photos I received on the kids in question - now they didn't look like this
when they arrived, but she all but gave them to the woman - and she did give me mine for nothing.

Who would have thought they would end up being so unhealthy so quickly? ugh

Am I REALLY to blame? ?  ? :( - Goats
Am I REALLY to blame? ?  ? :( - Goats
then some of the kids in question
Am I REALLY to blame? ?  ? :( - Goats
Am I REALLY to blame? ?  ? :( - Goats
Am I REALLY to blame? ?  ? :( - Goats
Am I REALLY to blame? ?  ? :( - Goats

If anyone recognizes the photos - please do not mention names. I believe the breeder
is a nice woman that simply had too many kids this year to handle - don't want her feelings hurt at all
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Last edited by Creamers; 09/02/11 at 02:31 AM.
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  #2  
Old 09/02/11, 02:25 AM
victory's Avatar  
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Creamers,
I really think you already know the answer o your question.
It is the breeder's responsibility to present healthy animals for sale. It is the buyer's responsibility to know what they are getting. As goat owners, it is our responsibility to educate and mentor, and where folks take it beyond that is totally up to them. Sounds to me like you did all you could, if she brought home sick goats, why could that be your fault?? Seems like she doesn't know what she has in a goat friend (you =) and she is taking advantage of you. You have been more than kind and helpful, too bad she can't just appreciate that simple fact and chalk it up to experience and move forward. Some people aren't happy till they wreck your day.....sounds like she's one of them...
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  #3  
Old 09/02/11, 02:32 AM
Farming with a Heart
 
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Thank you - I just didn't want to see it only from my POV - I added photos to the post above, too.

I think the part that bothers me is it is being made to seem my opinon isn't trustworthy -
that really bothers me.
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  #4  
Old 09/02/11, 07:08 AM
 
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Location: South Carolina
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What Victory said. If the breeder sold sick goats and the purchaser bought sick goats, it's on them. You were a contact, that is all. You didn't force the sale or purchase, and in fact, did all you could afterward to help remedy the situation. You are not at fault at all!!
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  #5  
Old 09/02/11, 07:09 AM
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People lash hour verbally when frustrated.

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  #6  
Old 09/02/11, 07:15 AM
aka RamblinRoseRanc :)
 
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Location: Morristown, TN
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It wasn't your fault.

We had the same thing happen to someone we know. He was going off his friendship (and knowledge) of a horse breeder and his stock. He'd known the guy and had swapped animals with him for years. Had been to his farm multiple times a year as well. Pics on the website looked great.
When DH and the guy arrived at the breeder's farm.... the guy was embarrassed as all get out. After spending so much time (and the entire trip there) talking up the breeder's stock they found almost all the horses thin to emaciated. Same situation- too many critters with all the new babies born and not enough feed to go around. This was right around the time the plants closed down so the horse market had just hit rock bottom.

Wasn't the fault of guy we knew, isn't your fault. When all have to go on is your personal experience and website/sent photos.... what else can you expect? If you have no reason to disbelieve the breeder.....

<<<hugs>>>
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  #7  
Old 09/02/11, 07:49 AM
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No you are not to blame. I think acquaintance #1 is being totally unreasonable and unappreciative of all the help you have given. I wouldn't do anything else for her...she sounds like she will never be happy
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  #8  
Old 09/02/11, 08:16 AM
 
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As someone who doesn't have goats, but wants them some day - no, I don't believe you to be to blame at all.

She picked the goats out herself, and felt they were sick within 24 hours of purchase. She was aware and has options, one of which is to return them, another is to heal them.

All her responsibility, not yours.
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  #9  
Old 09/02/11, 09:04 AM
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Location: Texas
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She bought the goats..... it's not like you picked up & delivered sick goats to her, fault is on her.

I understand her frustration....... I bought goats from a breeder that was recommended to me from a HTer and was happy with them. Reserved more goats from same breeders several months later & when I went to puck them up the doe had an eye injury & was horribly thin, the buck kid I bought had been turned out in the herd with no momma, nursed only twice a day from another doe on the milk stand.....Was horribly small, loaded with coccidia, had puemonia....Both cost me a FORTUNE in vet visit & meds.....not to mention time & stress.

Do I blame the HTer who refered me? Of course not. I blame the breeder who had been at this long enough to know better. Breeder is at fault & your friend is at fault for taking them even after seeing their condition upon purchase.

Sorry you have all this drama, you've done what you can, time for your friend to get over it.
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  #10  
Old 09/02/11, 09:19 AM
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Not your fault and she is being extremely rude to try and make it so. It was not your responsibility to make sure she got healthy animals, it was hers. You had good reason to recommend this person and went off the knowledge you had. I would not make recommendations to this person in the future since she has shown she will blame you for any and all problems that may relate to it. It's like you recommending a store to go to and her having a car wreck on the way and blaming you. She's got problems. I would take this as a warning to have no further dealings with this person. She is showing she is not reasonable. That can cause even bigger problems in other situations.
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  #11  
Old 09/02/11, 10:32 AM
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In my opinion, this is certainly NOT your fault. I hope this gets settled to everyone's satisfaction, especially yours.
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  #12  
Old 09/02/11, 11:00 AM
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Your experience with the breeder was a good one, you bought healthy fat and fluffy Winter kids. She bought Summer kids who are exposed to more parasites. Personally I do not think they look awful from the pictures you posted. They are shorter coated Summer kids and they always look different from Winter ones. Sure one looks a bit scruffy, ( mostly the kid in pic 2) coats not as nice as they should be. But I do not look at those pictures and see starving kids with awful scours. I also cannot see runny noses, but I am sure they had them.

You recommended her based on your experience and there is nothing wrong with that. You also offered someone with goat experience to go and pick them up for her. She chose to go herself. She saw them in person and took them home anyway.

Now I could see if the person you sent there saw sick goats, bought them and dropped them off how she might be angry with you, but that did not happen, she chose to buy those goats after seeing them herself.

I have been to farms looking to buy goats and saw things I did not like so I will say something like........... Well I am just looking today and not prepared to buy. Something non-commital or rude and I walk away. Granted she drove 3 hours but still if she did not like what she saw should have left, bargained better, etc.

I would tell her point blank that you are sorry she is having a bad experience, yours was good so could not have forseen any problems she might have had. You are willing to continue giving her advice for issues she runs into, not out if guilt but as a courtsey to a friend and fellow newbie goat owner. I would also send her a few good links on Cocci and scurs.
You have done plenty to help her and I would not feel guilty about it. It is not like you knew they were sick or picked up sick kids and dumped them into her yard.
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  #13  
Old 09/02/11, 11:36 AM
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Sure it's not shipping fever?
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  #14  
Old 09/02/11, 11:46 AM
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I agree with everyone here. This is not your fault, If you recommended a store, and she went there and saw a TV that clearly had been dropped, but decided to buy it anyway, only to find out it didn't work when she got it home, would that be your fault? No, it wouldn't and this isn't either. Your friend is a big girl, she needs act like it. She chose, to go and pick the goats herself, she chose to bring them after seeing them, and she chose to treat them instead of take them back. Now she needs to take responsibility for her own decisions and quite trying to make you responsible for her decisions.
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Old 09/02/11, 12:06 PM
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When you buy babies, IMO you had better start on cocci treatment, not just prevention, right away. The stress of the move a lot of times blows up coccidia big time, and if you don't jump on it they can go downhill fast, as far as condition and health is concerned, and no it is not your fault.
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  #16  
Old 09/02/11, 12:27 PM
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Nope, just a contact, not your fault. You had + experiences with the breeder before. You tried to help her with them, which was above and beyond. Sometimes these things just happen. Nothing will make acquaintance happy it seems, don't beat yourself up.
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  #17  
Old 09/02/11, 12:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaiblue12 View Post
Your experience with the breeder was a good one, you bought healthy fat and fluffy Winter kids. She bought Summer kids who are exposed to more parasites. Personally I do not think they look awful from the pictures you posted. They are shorter coated Summer kids and they always look different from Winter ones. Sure one looks a bit scruffy, ( mostly the kid in pic 2) coats not as nice as they should be. But I do not look at those pictures and see starving kids with awful scours. I also cannot see runny noses, but I am sure they had them.
.
That is EXACTLY what I was thinking!!!! Maybe I am missing something, but none look like they are on 's door.

And you are in the middle of something that is not your problem. You put yourself there to try to be of help to fellow goat people and it has bitten you in the . That is a real shame. No good deed goes unpunished... as the saying goes. But don't withhold your kindness and gift of helps in the future because of one persons inability to show thankfulness and appreciation for what you have done. I always need friends like you because I am a real dork sometimes. Maybe move here
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  #18  
Old 09/02/11, 05:59 PM
Farming with a Heart
 
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Quote:
That is EXACTLY what I was thinking!!!! Maybe I am missing something, but none look like they are on 's door.
I should have explained better - those were the photos I got from the breeder a few weeks prior to picking mine up, but they DID NOT look anything like those photos - the kids the lady goat and even the two I ended up with were scrawny with snotty noses and had not grown nearly to the size you'd expect 4-12 week old kids to be, depending on each age of the kid. . .I showed the photos to show what I expected to her to end up with.

Thank you all - I just wanted to be sure that I wasn't being unfair in my feelings.

Quote:
No good deed goes unpunished
True!
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  #19  
Old 09/02/11, 07:19 PM
 
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No way you are responsible for that irresponsible breeder, nor your friends lack of doing her homework in researching the care of goats (which would help her identify healthy animals).

I've posted before, our winter born kids are so much more healthy than summer born kids. Summer born kids here are not sick, but they need a little more attention than those born in the cold months. The difference is quite noticeable.

HF
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  #20  
Old 09/02/11, 09:33 PM
Cathy
 
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No good deed goes unpunished. I know that well
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