G6S herd wide test results!!!

[yarrow]

I've known for quite a while, that as a Nubian breeder.. I really NEEDED to test for G6S. (it's a genetic mutation that occurs in the Nubian breed. It's estimated that 25% are carriers.. While Carriers are perfectly healthy, they just have one normal gene & one defective gene.. if you happen to breed a Carrier to a Carrier.. you run the risk of have Affected babies.. G6S Affected status is a death sentence.. From what I've read, many times Affected kids look & act normal when young.. normal enough that they are sold to new homes.. ending in heartbreak & blame, all around)

It's a simple DNA test..One time and you know (no titers, no false this or that.., no quessing.. the results are either NORMAL, Carrier or Affected.. no need to ever repeat) Offspring of Normal bred to Normal, stand NO chance, at even having Carriers.. just Normals!!!

BUT>.. it's a rather costly test. ($42.00 per goat) pretty expensive, especially for a good sized herd.. SO after much saving up of MANY pennies we took a deep breath.. called the vet (decided if we were going to be out the expense of testing.. we'd go all the way.. have the vet come, read tattoos, draw the blood, fill out the identification info ect... wrapped & packed vials with icepacks and starting sending overnight packages to TVDML. (having never had G6S tests done before I wanted to make sure the blood would arrive okay in this awful summer heat, so we drew on 3 different days, 5 samples the first time, 6 the next.. then 14 to finish up... drew on thursdays, overnighted.. got my results by email on mon or tues, each time (followed up by snail mail, hard copies)......

I'll admit I was nervous.. that 25% of all nubians being carriers kept running thru my head .... BUT.. I'm am so happy to be able to announce..(MY HANDS WERE SHAKING AS I OPENED THE EMAILED RESULTS )

ALL of our Bucks/bucklings came back NORMAL.. ALL does, but two, came back NORMAL. Those two are both Carriers (one doe is my own breeding, from outside purchased sire & dam... I don't own either parent, any longer.. but thankfully she has never kidded, so no carrier babies from her --I have a person who wants her, to milk & raise meat kids from, so she'll not be in the herd --
....Sadly, the other Carrier is a doe that I paid an arm & a leg for. Brought her in from the PNW.. BUT.. her bloodlines are wonderful and she will be staying in the herd. She too has never kidded yet, all her future kids will, of course be tested before they are sold ... (I have contacted her breeder, who now will be doing some testing of her own!!)

All totaled, it cost me just under $1400 dollars (my vet was a sweetie and only charged me half priced farm calls)... It's such a relief.. just knowing for sure...well worth every penny I spent!!!! I'm so excited about the upcoming breeding season.. First new spotted bucks to try and now.G6S Normal status..

NOW.. I do have a question.. we have always kept our prices .. LOW!!! (we are in the Ozarks)... on avg. $150 to $175 for a HEALTHY doeling (annual, herdwide tests for CAE.. always NEG... never/ever had/nor will there be CL!!...now all G6S Normal) My kids are sold, disbudded/tattooed, doing well on a bottle.. with their Adga reg. paperwork (all of our Nubians are ADGA Purebred)....

Question being.. would it be worth it, as a buyer.. to pay a little more.. say $25 or so, to KNOW that you are buying a G6S Normal baby???? thus not running the risk of bringing a Carrier into your own herd (and never having to spend $42 to test, since they are Normal by parentage)

susie (breathing a sigh of relief, in the Mo. Ozarks)

[Alice In TX/MO]

Susie,
Congratulations on the almost perfect test results!!

Yes, if I had Nubians, I would pay the extra. Not a problem.

Alice

[Donna1982]

Originally Posted by yarrow

Question being.. would it be worth it, as a buyer.. to pay a little more.. say $25 or so, to KNOW that you are buying a G6S Normal baby???? thus not running the risk of bringing a Carrier into your own herd (and never having to spend $42 to test, since they are Normal by parentage)

First off congrats!!! Second you better believe as a buyer I would pay more if I knew they were G6S normal. Coming from having Collies and them having the mdr1 gene its worth paying to test and if I don't have to go through the stress of taking blood sending it in and stressing about it until the results come you better believe I would spend more on a goat.

[yarrow]

Originally Posted by Donna1982

First off congrats!!! Second you better believe as a buyer I would pay more if I knew they were G6S normal. Coming from having Collies and them having the mdr1 gene its worth paying to test and if I don't have to go through the stress of taking blood sending it in and stressing about it until the results come you better believe I would spend more on a goat.

that's was very much my thoughts too.. if nothing else the convenience of not having to draw & send (besides the $42 per test, there is also an out-of-state fee of $7.50 per package of samples..)... The more I've read & talked about G6S.. The more I *knew* I had to *know*.. which is why I tested EVERYONE.. even AFTER ..the bucks (who we tested first) came back Normal.. I knew we'd not be selling Affected kids.. by testing all the girls too, now the whole G6S issue, will forever be a non-issue for my herd...

We keep our bucks for quite a while. (Cold is going to be 5 this year. He is such a sweetheart and the son of my all time favorite doe, Charlie- who I lost to milk fever- so Cold will be here until the day he dies) had I never tested him... just using him year after year.. and had he been a Carrier..(even if the does were all Normal).. at a 50 -50 chance of passing on Carrier genes to each kid a Carrier bucks sires!!... a herd could get a large number of Carriers quickly... We were just really, really lucky that our numbers were so low..it could have been just the opposite... can't even imagine what that would have done to my herd and my future plans...

susie, mo ozarks

[Natural Beauty Farm]

That is great news.
To answer your question..... YES I would pay. In fact since I have Nubians and want to have G6S Normal, I pay the 42 plus fees regularly.... can be almost $100 extra per kid. It is a major selling point for me and if someone has not tested their herd or tries to talk me out of testing, does not want to help me get a kid tested, well I look else where at kids.

Some even call us snobs, because I think a kid I want to have in my herd should cost me at least $350, since that is what it costs me to feed and care for a doe who has twins. When I see someone advertising kids for $400 and up, well I look at them, because they know what it costs to take care of the animal and it is more likely that they have given them the care that they need. In my book if someone is selling kids cheap, well they are loosing $$.

[Pony]

Susie: Huzzah and Congratulations on your overall status! Sorry about the two carriers, but now you KNOW - what a feeling, eh?

If you have the information, sure, then, I think it's worth it for knowledgeable folk and they'd pay for it.

[Pony]

As for the "snob" comments, a couple of the neighbors in the area have been <ahem!> "sharing information" that I'm too picky.

Oh, well. I don't have CAE, CL, or Johne's, so they can talk all they want.

[Cannon_Farms]

and some one couldnt mention this before I bought into a bunch of nubians? Guess its good I can pull blood, or dose some one with credentials need to do this so its official? After the adults are tested is there a need to keep testing as in could it skip a generation? I have small starter herd of 12 goats but half of them are offsprings whom I still have both the parents too so I would only need to test 6 goats correct?

[yarrow]

Originally Posted by Cannon_Farms

and some one couldnt mention this before I bought into a bunch of nubians? Guess its good I can pull blood, or dose some one with credentials need to do this so its official? After the adults are tested is there a need to keep testing as in could it skip a generation? I have small starter herd of 12 goats but half of them are offsprings whom I still have both the parents too so I would only need to test 6 goats correct?

I was seriously wondering if G6S and our need to test for it, was COMMON knowledge among nubian people.. or just something that you happen to see or hear mentioned and start looking it up... I found out about it, maybe 3 years ago (Karen Bailey & I became friends.. she had a great page about it on her website.. http://www.freewebs.com/calmgentleda...g6sarticle.htm
From what I've read.. it really hasn't been *known* about for all that long..
It was first identified in 1987 at Michigan State University....

NO.. you do not need to have the vet out.. you can pull your own blood.. I just felt if I was already going to be spending that much.. why not a little more and make it a *tad* more offical --- and it is only a once in a lifetime test... once you know that you have sire & dam BOTH Normal by DNA testing.. then all the resulting offspring, can be classified as Normal by parentage..

You will be sending your samples to
Texas Veterinary Medical Diagnostic Laboratory in College Station TX
mailing address:
TVMDL
PO Box Drawer 3040
College Station, TX 77841-3040

TVMDL website:
http://tvmdl.tamu.edu/

(draw 2 cc's just like for a CAE test).

Here's the link to print off your forms... (this is for NON-account submissions)

http://tvmdl.tamu.edu/library/files/...tal%20Form.pdf

(we wrote goat's name and then assigned numbers 1 thru whatever on the tube and made the same list on the form..you are wanting G6S Mutation Test)
It's $42.00 per goat, each time you send in a group.. add $7.50 to the total (lab processing fee).. We wrapped each vial in a paper towel, bundled those together inside a baggie.. I then put that baggie inside a bigger one and added my printed off form.. so no condensation from the ice pack made the form soggy.... then I sent it express/overnight... the lab was very friendly and easy to work with...

I sure wish someone had clued me in a whole lot earlier.. but some folks call this the *nubian's dirty little secret*... I don't know if I'd go that far.. but I was a tad taken back by all the well known herds who have NEVER tested and have been around well enough and long enough to know all about G6S!!!!

susie, mo ozarks

[Minelson]

Congrats to you Susie! I have never even heard of G6S...

[yarrow]

Originally Posted by Minelson

Congrats to you Susie! I have never even heard of G6S...

... I had never heard of it either.. UNTIL.. Karen tested two bucklings she got from me.. One was Normal.. One was a Carrier... The Carrier buckling was sired by my beloved buck, Eldamar Morrie (who was all Crown-Hill)..I looked form Crown Hill on the G6S status folder on Nubian Talk (Nubian Talk group is owned by the lady who IS CrownHill!).. Morrie's sire was listed.. he was G6S Normal, but I never could find results of for his dam .. and assume she was untested.. Morrie was dead the time Karen's buckling tested, so we couldn't test him...

A couple more bucks he's sired tested as Carriers in the last year... THAT'S why I knew I had to get enough money together to test (I had visions of having a herd full of Carriers- since I have 3 Morrie daughters & 4 grandkids!!!!) ... It was a great relief when all those daughters came back NORMAL!!!!.. as well as 3 of the 4 grandkids .. I feel bad that I unknowingly sold some Carriers (just happy to have, as far as I know.. dodged the selling Affected babies, bullet...)... From what I'm reading online, a lot of herds who do test are only testing their bucks.. reasoning being.. as long as the bucks are all Normal.. they are only risking Carrier kids from their untested does (avoiding Affecteds).. BUT.. what about cases like Morrie???? clear dad.. carrier mom... sold to someone that doesn't know about G6S.. who then begins to line breed off that really nicely bred bloodline.. they then pass on more & more Carriers to other herds... the only way to end the cycle is for ALL of us, who love the nubian breed.. is to be proactive and test...

susie, mo ozarks

[Cannon_Farms]

I kinda took a blind leap into the breed, I was looking at building a Lamancha herd then Georgia girl decided that for right now goats where a bit too much of a complication for their life for the moment and I already knew the goats well as I took care of them when they where away, knew the basics of their breedings and also liked the conformation for the most part on them, that and shes taking payments
I enjoy the breed well enough I can dedicate the time to it to build a good herd, they are great goats.
Is there anything else about the breed that I dont know about that I should??

[yarrow]

Originally Posted by Cannon_Farms

I kinda took a blind leap into the breed, I was looking at building a Lamancha herd then Georgia girl decided that for right now goats where a bit too much of a complication for their life for the moment and I already knew the goats well as I took care of them when they where away, knew the basics of their breedings and also liked the conformation for the most part on them, that and shes taking payments
I enjoy the breed well enough I can dedicate the time to it to build a good herd, they are great goats.
Is there anything else about the breed that I dont know about that I should??

No.. except for the G6S.. no specific breed concerns that I know of.. (I've got a hunch that many of the other breeds also carry DNA *glitches* -- just like dogs & horses ect.. this one was *discovered* in 1987.. who know what else is out there in other goat breeds.. just waiting to be discovered?? okay editing to add: .. I wanted to say there is a DNA test for it.. because humans also have issues with it.. but wanted to hop online and make sure I was recalling correctly... yeppers... here it is:

One may wonder why a DNA test has been developed for such an obscure defect, and no help is available for, say, multiple teats. The answer is simple - humans don't have a problem with multiple teats, they do with G-6-S. The same genetic defect, when found in humans, is called Sanfilippo IIID; the affected child appears normal at birth but soon stops growing, looses muscle mass, has neurological deterioration and dies. When the same genetic defect was discovered in goats researchers used them as models for treatment, and goat breeders in turn benefited from their discoveries.
((The whole article: http://kinne.net/g6s.htm ))

susie, mo ozarks

[Cannon_Farms]

Humm most interesting.

[copperpennykids]

Congratulations on a very successful outcome! And wowza, that is a chunk of change to plop down on 1 test. Kudos to you for taking the plunge.

I think an additional $25.00 is cheap insurance - but your beautiful girls are already priced below their quality and your care , so I can't imagine someone fussing over a price increase!

[yarrow]

Originally Posted by copperpennykids

Congratulations on a very successful outcome! And wowza, that is a chunk of change to plop down on 1 test. Kudos to you for taking the plunge.

I think an additional $25.00 is cheap insurance - but your beautiful girls are already priced below their quality and your care , so I can't imagine someone fussing over a price increase!

thank you Camille.. blush.. Chris & Kaye & Ken all keep telling us we should show, do LA, all those good things.. (I do come from a background of YEARS upon YEARS of dog shows.. I've got a *decent* eye when it comes to the dairy goats.). who knows.. I might break down and start showing a little & there.. at least if we show some.. family & friends might better understand why I already TREAT the girls, like they are some top ranking/fancy lady.. show herd .. and not just some crazy fat, redheaded Ozark gal's *hobby* ..

Hubby has asked on more then once... "how come you spend $600 on a doeling, more then that on a buckling.. raise them up, breed them to each other..then sell their kids for $150??? "that ain't good business sense!"
I just smile and tell him always remember .... HAPPY WIFE>>>HAPPY LIFE

susie, mo ozarks

[Natural Beauty Farm]

It is a "dirty little secret", when top breeders know or have an idea of what their herds status is for G6S. I've found that it gives breeders a reason to lay off blame and responsibility on the buyer when a kid fails. I've even seen top breeders do it and complain to me about such and such buyer, until I remind them that the sire is a carrier and the dams line is a carrier.
Yes it is expensive to test, but it is a one time deal and if you breed normal to normal you will always get normals. Breed carrier to normal and you need to test every kid, because breeding a carrier to a carrier in the next generation will throw you back into the possibility of breeding Afflicted.
Nubians are the only breed that shows G6S and we have a test for it. It can be done at birth. No reason to keep it a secret. With a little testing we could have it eradicated from the breed quickly.