The new, cheaper feed I am using that boosted production is. . .

[Creamers]

I'd been buying Caprine Challenger for $14.99 a 50lb bag, and I liked it,
but I had to drive too far, it was often not in stock and so forth, and I really wanted something less $.
I've done Purina goat feeds, Buckeye, mixed whole grains, lock mixes and decided to try what I feed the horses:
http://www.horse.purinamills.com/pro...2-0032677.aspx
Purnia's Strategy Healthy Edge. . .
Higher Calcium and fat than goat feeds, and a higher forage content. . .

I've seen production go up 20% since using it in the last two weeks, and WE HAVE not had alfalfa in those two weeks because our producer is out of the hay, and even though we offer pellets, the does will not eat them. . .
prior to that, on the other feeds, we were offering free choice alfalfa hay. . . (wil again when we can get it). . .

this feed is $12.99 a bag and 2 miles from us, too.

[Alice In TX/MO]

How much are you giving your goats? I noticed on the product sheet it says not to feed a horse more than half a pound per hundred pounds of animal.

[Heritagefarm]

So, how much would that cost me to feed 20 goats 4 pounds a day? Hm. Outrageous price, if I may say so myself.

[houndlover]

I also have had problems finding a good supply of goat specific feed, and those that are available are, well, not very good quality. I recently moved my milkers to equis complete after trying equis golden senior (they didn't like the taste). My production is up about 20-25%. It's $16 per 50 lbs, I'm feeding 6 milkers 4lbs each a day. The protein isn't as high as I would like, but they are on the best forage in the world - I will add alfalfa pellets come October/November. I have the dry yearlings and kids on dry cob. It's really hard to find good feed they they'll much down while on the stand, not pick through, and keeps their milk up, and the cost of good feed is what keeps my numbers down. Here's the product sheet:

equis complete

My older girls get a small scoop of this in their feed too

ricebran

I'm also feeding equis ultramin instad of the purina goat minerals that I have to drive 50 miles to get. I have to say, it's awesome and my goats (and horses) have the shiniest coats this year. It's the same price as purina goat minerals.

equis ultramin

Equis is made by CHS which also makes the Payback line of feeds. This is show horse country, so that's what the feed stores (those still in business) carry. My hope is that the local feed store doesn't stop stocking it, or goes out of business, and I have to start over trying to find a good feed balance.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Looking at the feed, you can't feed it four pounds per goat per day. I see it as a mix-in.

[Creamers]

I cut it half and half with the dairy pellets from Southern States that run $11.99 a 50.

You can't compare the limitations on horses with a feed to the goats, though, because horses do not have the need of a dairy doe in milk. Where grain feed with horses is discouraged, we know it is needed in dairy does, so while I feed about 2 lbs per horse a day, I also feed about 2-3 lbs a day per doe - 1/8 th the size - in milk. The limitations with horses is to discourage people from limiting forage and feeding too much grain, though this feed has a lower grain content than most pelleted feeds short of Triple Crown Complete.

It is the least expensive feed option we have - we were paying more for even a whole grain mix. Consider:
BOSS $25 a 40lb
Corn $17 a 100
Oats $18 an 80
Alfalfa $13 a 40-50
Dairy pellets $11.99 a 50
if I add in rice bran pellets $23 a 50

So, how much would that cost me to feed 20 goats 4 pounds a day? Hm. Outrageous price, if I may say so myself.

Might be for your area - here. . .you either pay more than this or get out of goats. . .

I've done the custom mixes, every name brand feed out there, and this is the only thing I've fed that clearly showed a big milk increase. I saw a drop when using the whole grains both this year and last year, also a drop in condition.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Another thing I found out with my big Saanen cross is that she doesn't need as much feed as the "formula" for feeding grain per pound of milk produced recommends. Feeding her one pound of grain for each three pounds she produces makes her feet so sore that she is almost crippled.

[Creamers]

That is one reason I really like this feed option above - the risk of founder in horses, thus in goats, due to the forage amounts in this mix, are non-existant basically, but they maintain a good fat, protien, calcium ratio. . .
I don't find my girls eat as much per lb of milk given as I've heard others feed. . . and mine surely don't need anymore -

However, it does vary goat to goat - the high production Saanen lines I bought from feeds at least 1/2 lb per lb of milk - the goat are in glorious condition and some give 18lbs a day. . . I'd kill my low production Nubians if I fed them like that.

[Alice In TX/MO]

I think I'll get one bag of the Purina and top dress on the milk stand with a bit of it and see what happens!

[PrettyPaisley]

Sure wish it would list all the ingredients on the website! I'll look for it at TSC and see what's in it.

[Creamers]

TSC doesn't carry it here - we get it at Ace - the ingredients are a lot of forage - let me go check the tag.

[Creamers]

Protein 12%
Fat 8%
Fiber 18%
Calcium 1.3%
Copper 80ppm
Zinc 280
Selenium .6ppm

First 8 on the ingredients:
wheat middlings
alfalfa meal
soybean hulls
molasses
beet pulp
oat hulls
soybean oil
Ground corn

[Alice In TX/MO]

Shoot. I wish it didn't have soy in it.

Plus, if it's mainly wheat and alfalfa, and I'm already feeding oats and alfalfa pellets, I'm wondering if it's going to do my goats any good.

Hmmmmm.

[PrettyPaisley]

Thanks. I did look at TSC just now and I didn't see it.

I'm with Alice and I'll take that one step further. We don't do soy or corn for our animals. Darn.

[Creamers]

I don't like soy or corn in large amount, ideally, but hey, when you'd fed everything else and
see this is what works. . . like I have. . .I am happy, more than happy, to go
with it. I figure, if it really was so bad, I would not see near the improvements in
production and even weight that I've seen so quick. Surely the animals' bodies
know better than the hype in the media and so forth . . . maybe not - but for now. . .
I've gotta go with what I'm seeing. I went through the no soy, no corn thing here on the farm
about 2 years ago. It didn't last because - here - it didn't work for the condition I ended
up with in the herd, including horses. I know it works with some people - just didn't work here.

Sometimes I have to step back from hype around things and look at it that way.
Basically like I did with breastfeeding and formula feeding. . .
I'm a huge breastfeeding advocate . . .BF my first sone until two.
At 9 months with my second, my supply was gone due to my 3rd pregnancy.
I had to put him on formula. I was a wreck. Cried. . . cried. . .cried.
He couldn't tolerate anything but soy based formula. Again, I was a wreck.

Still. . .here grew. . .thrived. . . epitome of health.

Had my third - never had a bottle in his mouth - breastfed until 18 months. . .

If anything, he was smaller. . . a is the only child I've had to have chronic ear infections.

I'm still a huge advocate of breastfeeding because that above doesn't tell
the whole story of what a benefit it is to children verses formula. . . but
it did teach me to just observe on my own. . .

In this case, we've fed things without corn and soy to both goats and horses, and so
far, this have proven to create the best condition I've seen. . . who knows why. . .
But in my case, I've got to go with what works.

[Heritagefarm]

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

Shoot. I wish it didn't have soy in it.

Plus, if it's mainly wheat and alfalfa, and I'm already feeding oats and alfalfa pellets, I'm wondering if it's going to do my goats any good.

Hmmmmm.

What's wrong with soy?

[Alice In TX/MO]

Estrogenic effects, just like in humans. Messes up their hormones.

"Perhaps the most disturbing of soy's ill effects on health has to do with its phytoestrogens, which can mimic the effects of the female hormone, oestrogen. These phytoestrogens have been found to have adverse effects on various human tissues, and drinking only two glasses of soy milk daily for one month has enough of the chemical to alter a woman's menstrual cycle."

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/022630.html#ixzz1T51UXC2A

There is also some discussion of whether feeding the dams soy causes goiter in fetal kids.

Then, there's always the GMO issue.

[PrettyPaisley]

Soy and corn were simply not created for animals (or humans) to eat.

Almost all soy and corn is GMO these days. I dare say the percentage of soy-free animal feed is less than 1% and it's surely not sourced at big box -or even Mom and Pop- stores.

This is some of the most recent stuff I've read about the dangers of GMO. I'm sure many will pooh-pooh it or think that a little in moderation is fine, but for me it's not worth the risk. And I do not want to use my animals as a filter for clean food.

http://www.nutrimommy.com/2011/05/ge...-bt-toxin.html

I'm a homesteader soley due to soy. I never realized how prolific soy was in the SAD and my desire for clean food for the family started with a source for soy-free eggs. I couldn't find any and now I've snowballed into one of those crazy goat ladies. That's about the only reason I'm grateful for soy.

(a quick google search on "dangers of soy" will keep you reading all night long)

[Alice In TX/MO]

SAD is Standard American Diet?

If you don't want to eat soy, high fructose corn syrup, or artificial sweeteners, then regular grocery stores are a wasteland.

I'm a crazy goat lady, too, but I don't like chickens. Luckily, I have friends with pastured chickens, so I can get good eggs!

Just the other day, I was wondering if I could live on goat milk, cheese, and fruit. Oh, and a bit of dark chocolate.

Sorry for the thread drift!

[Creamers]

I'm the Local Weston A Price chapter leader for the tristate area- believe me, I could recite it all day, probably some things many others here haven't even heard. . . all the negative effects we are told about. . . that is.

I sometimes simply go on what I see though . . .I have to trust that sometimes - lol.

I don't "personally" believe that soy an corn weren't designed for humans or animals. . . I think they NEVER were intended to be 90% of our diets, and therein is the problem.

A quick history lesson on Native Americans will show us that corn isn't "Bad" - it is how we've used it and how much we've used these two foods that made them poster foods for negative press, IMO.

My does get 75% forage, so I feel 100% comfortable feeding such a small amount of corn and soy, but I DO understand if others do not. One has to follow his or her peace on it.