Can't seem to win here

[Blue Run Farm]

I am beginning to think I am just not cut out for having goats anymore. It seems we went for years with our three pygmy goat wethers without all the issues I am seeing lately. Granted, we had our emergencies here and there, but it just doesn't seem like everything ever hit all at once like this. Hubby is ready to sell off the goats altogether, but I can't imagine this place without my sweet Snickers! And we all know you have to have at least three...

Now that we have culled the doe with CAE and her kids are in the pen waiting to be butchered next, I had really hoped things would settle down for a while, you know? Then Snickers had her shaking episode, which turned out to be mild hypocalcemia, per the bloodwork the vet drew and ran. That responded well and immediately to a calcium drench, and we also gave her some thiamin and probiotics just to be on the safe side. But it was an over $200 vet bill by the time all was said and done. Then less than a week later, she popped up with a lump on her udder for another vet visit. I, of course, paniced and wanted to be assured that it was NOT CL. The vet understood my fear, but it looked nothing like CL, was not anywhere near a lymph node, and did not have any exudate, just a teeny tiny bit of runny pus. But he was concerned about ORF, though he didn't think it was that due to the look of it and the fact that her kids had no signs of it. Diagnosis: probably a reaction to a bug bite for $100 or so. Don't drink the milk until the spot is totally gone, just in case. She's our only milk goat, so that meant no fresh milk again.

So now, between those visits and my husband's horse trying to kill herself in May, I owe the vet over $2,000. Not a sum I can pay easily, but he knows I will pay it off, I will make payments and I am good for it. But I hate owing him money! So yesterday, I go out to feed the goats and Snickers' doeling, the only baby I can keep this year and number two of our soon to be two goat herd, looks like she has chicken pox! She has ruffled spots in about 6-8 spots on her sides. I could just cry! I looked at the biggest one and it is kinda scabby and crusty. Snickers has had a little spot on her chin for the past few days that I think is staph. I am ordering Lysigin from Jeffers and thinking now Skittles (the doeling) probably has it too. I feel like a terrible goat mama! I really do not want to have the vet out again, we just cannot afford it. But now with two of them having spots, how can I not have him out? I am thinking I will call him tomorrow and see if I can bring by one of the scabs and have him culture it. That would save me the $85 farm call fee.

Would it be okay to treat them as having staph right away or could that hurt them if it is something else? Can the doeling have the Lysigin at two months old? I know that is a vaccine, not a treatment, but I'm thinking vaccination might help prevent any future outbreaks. For treatment, I am cleaning with betadine and lathering on antibiotic wound cream. Should I be doing anything else? I have heard mixed reviews on injecting antibiotics for staph, plus I don't really want to do that until I have it cultured so I am sure of what I am dealing with. Not that I can afford the culture, but how can I afford not to either? Ugh!

Here I am trying to find another doe/doeling to improve my herd and bring me up to three, but I'm starting to think I am crazy to consider adding another animal to this property. I feel like I am beating my head against a wall here, every time I get one problem sorted out, another one raises its ugly head! I love my goats and can't imagine life without them, but it seems unfair that they seem to be suffering from my bad luck. I just want to have a nice healthy herd with no more than normal issues! Not that I expect everyone to be healthy all the time, it would just be nice if I could get a break in between. I try really hard to give my goats and other animals the best care possible but it seems like it just isn't working lately. Sorry to vent on here and be so negative, I just need to let it out to people who might understand. I can't talk to hubby because his answer is "well if they are too much trouble, just get rid of them" and that is just depressing

[Alice In TX/MO]

I think you need to stop calling out the vet.

Yes, you can treat the doeling with Lysigin.

If you have a digital cam, post pics of things that concern you, and we'll discuss it, and you can (most of the time) avoid a vet bill.

I had a doe a few years ago that got those funny lump crusty spots over her whole body. Allergic reaction to SOMETHING, and we never found out what. Benedryl is good to have in your goat med box.

[LoneStrChic23]

Yes, I agree, take pics, post them here & we will try to help.

If I had to call the vet for everything goats come up with I'd be goat poor too!

Your doe who had hypocalcemia.....what is her diet? Do you provide loose minerals & copper bolus?

When did you last deworm & what did you use?

I know these aren't directly related to the skin issue....but I ask these questions to get an idea of your management so if anything needs tweaking we can get it sorted out before you have another problem.....With goats they seem to go downhill fast when something is wrong, so prevention is always the best route.

As to the skin issue.... I had staph on my mini's udder & I had a nice drawn out time with sore mouth on three of my goats....Both cases I cleaned the area 3x's a day with Nolvasan, and continued to do so for a few days after it cleared up. Worked great, everyone had been free & clear since December

Take a deep breath.....everything will be okay, and we will help you out as much as we're able.

[ozark_jewels]

I had a doe with lumps all over her body yesterday. Today they are gone, but the spots are slightly crusty. An allergic reaction to "something". Who knows what. Weird things happen.
I keep a spray bottle of Chlorhexadine on hand and spray that on any crusty area, cut, etc. Always clears it right up.

[Blue Run Farm]

Thanks guys! I was thinking as I posted that I really should take pics. I am nut usually one to call the vet for every little thing, but with the horses and dogs I am a lot more confident doing more myself since I have decades of experience with them. The goats, I never had a "mentor" to learn from so it's all been learn as I go and I am not as confident.

Here are some pics of Snickers' chin. You can't really see it well, but the sort of light brown area has a little bit of crust under the hair.




A whole body shot of Skittles. You can see the ruffled areas where the spots are. She is not really this downhill, by the way, just an odd angle on the pic!



And some of the spots themselves. I had to pull the hair back to get any good pics of the crusty areas themselves. Yes, I know I should have worn gloves, but I scrubbed my hands as soon as I got in! Forgot the gloves and my (human) 10 month old was not amused that I left him in the playpen to run outside and take pics, lol. The spot on the back of her hind leg is the biggest.






And a pic of a scab that came off her leg when I was pulling the hair back. Yes, I disposed of it as soon as the pic was snapped. Need to go out and bleach that can lid now, too.



Thanks for the advice and I hope that's not too many icky pictures! So, what do you guys think? Staph or ?... I have dealt with ringworm before, and I don't think that's what it is. It is definitely not abcesses, so that is good. And I don't see any evidence of lice or mites when I look at her skin, but I suppose they are still a possibility? The spots don't seem to bother her, just me. And her brother, who is destined for the freezer, looks great. Of course it would be the doeling that would have issues! I am tempted to clip her and give her a full body Nolvasan bath, but I'm sure she would hate me for it. I am ordering Lysigin from Jeffers, anything else I should get before I send the order in? Thanks again, I am so glad I found this board!

[ozark_jewels]

I have seen that over the years in several kids. Chlorhexadine cleared it up in no time, leaving healthy pink skin that grew hair right back. Just a thought. And no, it does not look like staph to me. Staph is *usually* wetter than that. That looks like dry crusty scabs.

[Oat Bucket Farm]

I am dealing with a skin issue on Penny. She has felt lumpy since she arrived. Not lumpy as in big bumps but lumpy like a bunch if tiny pebbles under her hair, all over. She had some scaly, scabby junk on her udder too.

We shaved Lil'Miss down too and she has a few of the little scab like things on her chest.

We shaved her down and she was covered in flaky,scaly gunk and little bitty scabs. We got her udder cleared up, I think the twice daily cleaning for milking helped with that.

We bathed them both with shampoo that I added tea tree oil to and they are getting daily sponge offs with ACV water. They both also got a Bo-Se shot to boost their immune systems and will get copper as soon as my order arrives.

Miranda's FIL has been caring for her goats so far this year and even she said they needed some work. I can definitely see that Miranda's was not as involved as she wanted to be. Lil'Miss is about 20 lbs underweight and Penny is about 30 lbs underweight. I know Miranda would never have let them get this way.

It will be nice to see how they look in a couple of months.

The reason for this long,involved, rambling post? So that you can see that you are not alone in the "What in the world is that funky junk on my goat's skin?" club. And so you can see that sometimes its a bit of a battle to get them to where you want them. But trust me, it is well worth every minute of the fight...and every dollar of the vet bill.

Like other's have said, post some pics and see if we can help you avoid too many more of those vet bills.

[Blue Run Farm]

Originally Posted by LoneStrChic23

Yes, I agree, take pics, post them here & we will try to help.

If I had to call the vet for everything goats come up with I'd be goat poor too!

Your doe who had hypocalcemia.....what is her diet? Do you provide loose minerals & copper bolus?

When did you last deworm & what did you use?

I know these aren't directly related to the skin issue....but I ask these questions to get an idea of your management so if anything needs tweaking we can get it sorted out before you have another problem.....With goats they seem to go downhill fast when something is wrong, so prevention is always the best route.

As to the skin issue.... I had staph on my mini's udder & I had a nice drawn out time with sore mouth on three of my goats....Both cases I cleaned the area 3x's a day with Nolvasan, and continued to do so for a few days after it cleared up. Worked great, everyone had been free & clear since December

Take a deep breath.....everything will be okay, and we will help you out as much as we're able.

Thank you! To answer your questions, the doe who had hypocalcemia gets free choice alfalfa pellets, baking soda, and manna pro loose goat minerals plus a goat mineral brick because it was all I could find that has cobalt. Plus grass hay, sometimes with a little timothy, and Blue Seal dairy goat pellets on the milk stand (though she doesn't eat them as well as I'd like, since I used to feed sweet feed she has rebelled since I switched to pellets about 4 months ago, lol). If she doesn't finish her pellets on the stand, I leave them with her and she generally finishes them at her leisure.

She was copper bolused about 3 months ago and wormed a month prior to her episode with both cydectin and valbazen. When she had the episode, we also wormed her at that time with ivermectin at the vet's suggestion. Other than that, she gets to browse when I'm home to keep an eye on her, we have plenty of stickerbushes and low hanging tree branches to keep her busy. She's a really nice girl who had a bad past and I am very attached to her. She's my baby of the goats, the one who always answers when I call and jumps on the milkstand as soon as she sees me. She'll come over and lean on my leg just to be near me and love on me. She's a special girl so I really want to do the best I can for her.

[Oat Bucket Farm]

You might try clipping them if you can. It will let you see exactly what their skin is up to and it will allow the sun and air to get to the skin better, which will help.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Looks like wasp stings or an allergic reaction on the Little White Goat.

The pics of the chin lump are too close and fuzzy.

[Pony]

A couple of those spots (esp the red, angry looking one) appear to be hot spots, perhaps from fly bites? Trub and Airin' have had a couple sore spots from flies biting.

I use a combination of half neo-sporin and half zinc oxide ointment, applied twice daily. Works like a charm.

Of course, if I had a bottle of chlorehexadine, I'd use that. Did you know that, once upon a time, you could buy PhisoHex over the counter? AH, the good old days...

[Pony]

Forgot to say, Blue Run, that you need to stick with it.

The goats are just testing your mettle, making sure that you're the kind of human they can respect. Yeah, that's it. They're not trying to drive you crazy, really! They just... haha.... they're just testing... .LOL!!!!

YEah, they're trying to make you go stark barking mad. You have two options: Go ahead and lose it, or show those goats who is boss!

Don't let the goats win!! Stay in the fight!

Never, never, NEVER give up!!!

[mekasmom]

I am sorry you are so discouraged with goats. It's tragic.
Maybe you should consider simply calming down. I would never have culled the CAE doe, but rather saved her to get kids that I could bottle feed and raise CAE free. I would do the same thing with your doelings, then sell them so you don't have such a financial loss. It is ok to work to mitigate your damages in the financial realm. You are loosing too much money for nothing, and it's upsetting your husband. That is tragic. I'm so sorry.

[lasergrl]

Could they be warbles? looks like there is holes in the middle.

[Pony]

Originally Posted by mekasmom

I am sorry you are so discouraged with goats. It's tragic.
Maybe you should consider simply calming down. I would never have culled the CAE doe, but rather saved her to get kids that I could bottle feed and raise CAE free. I would do the same thing with your doelings, then sell them so you don't have such a financial loss. It is ok to work to mitigate your damages in the financial realm. You are loosing too much money for nothing, and it's upsetting your husband. That is tragic. I'm so sorry.

Not everyone has the reserves of time, energy, et al, to do CAE prevention.

I have to wonder how you'd feel if you posted about a hard decision you'd made - and explained - only to have someone say, "I'd never do that." Walking a mile in someone's shoes is a good idea, even if you only do it in your head before you post.

[Cheryl aka JM]

One of my goats came up with something that looked exactly like that last year. Some of the spots had gotten quite large and gross before I spotted them (I'd had surgery and my helpers at the time did not realize she was not supposed to look like that!). I don't know what it really was, but I called it ringworm, shaved around the areas, rubbed antifungal foot cream in with a toothbrush every morning. Some of the spots got better....some new ones came up. One of the calves had it too. I got discouraged, bought some ringworm spray from Jeffers, sprayed the goat and the calf every chance I got for over a week~ just walked out there, put down some food and started spraying the goat! It went away. Cost me maybe $20 in meds and toothbrush.

Try it~ might work. The spots don't look life threatening, try a little home med first. If i'd thought of it I'd probably have done the banadryl too.

[Cannon_Farms]

could they be getting into nettle or thistle

[Blue Run Farm]

Originally Posted by Oat Bucket Farm

I am dealing with a skin issue on Penny. She has felt lumpy since she arrived. Not lumpy as in big bumps but lumpy like a bunch if tiny pebbles under her hair, all over. She had some scaly, scabby junk on her udder too.

The reason for this long,involved, rambling post? So that you can see that you are not alone in the "What in the world is that funky junk on my goat's skin?" club. And so you can see that sometimes its a bit of a battle to get them to where you want them. But trust me, it is well worth every minute of the fight...and every dollar of the vet bill.

Like other's have said, post some pics and see if we can help you avoid too many more of those vet bills.

Thanks, OBF! I really do love these guys, but they are doing their best to drive me batty! Glad to hear I am not the only one dealing with this stuff.

The plan for today is to shave both babies, just in case I missed anything on the boy, and bathe them. Should be fun, lol. So, I thought I had Nolvasan but I don't. But I do have a green shampoo that I got from my vet when one of the horses stuck his entire back leg in the water trough this winter and gave himself a lovely case of ringworm and bacterial skin infection from doing so. See, the horses like to drive me batty too, but with them I worry less since I've seen most of what they can come up with already, lol. I'm thinking if that shampoo worked for him, it should be good for whatever this is. Not sure what it is called, as it is in a red bottle the vet put it in, but I feel fairly safe with it. Then I will put more triple antibiotic ointment on after the bath. And maybe head to TSC for a new bottle of Nolvasan for follow-up spraying over the next week or however long it takes, since I don't think I am going to get away with bathing them too many times, lol.

In answer to some other posts, no I don't think it is warbles, those spots that look like holes are actually little scabby areas and there is no swelling under the skin. Thistles are a possibility, I hadn't even thought of that. We do have some weeds that are rather prickly. My coworker suggested that maybe she laid in a red ant colony, since the spots seem to be concentrated on her right side. Which would fit with the irritated bug bite theory. Or of course, there is always the good old flies. My mare is allergic to fly bites, so why not the goat too? Sigh. Of course, any of those is better than staph, so I'm kind of hoping it is one of them. Will be vaccinating with Lysigin anyway, just in case and as a preventative. I do not think it is ringworm, as the hair around the spots does not fall out like with ringworm. And the scabbiness does not look like the ringworm we have dealt with.

Thanks again everyone, I am feeling better about not spending more money on the vet!!! I really am not usually a huge worrier, but it's just the one more thing on top of everything else that did me in.

[Blue Run Farm]

Originally Posted by Pony

Forgot to say, Blue Run, that you need to stick with it.

The goats are just testing your mettle, making sure that you're the kind of human they can respect. Yeah, that's it. They're not trying to drive you crazy, really! They just... haha.... they're just testing... .LOL!!!!

YEah, they're trying to make you go stark barking mad. You have two options: Go ahead and lose it, or show those goats who is boss!

Don't let the goats win!! Stay in the fight!

Never, never, NEVER give up!!!

Thanks Pony! Funny thing is, as much as I worry, the goats just look at me like I'm crazy, lol. What, so I look like heck, what's your point lady? Now bring me some food!!!

BTW, do goats get ingrown hairs? Because I was milking Snickers this morning and she had a little yellow spot on her udder. Teeny teeny tiny. Took a closer look and it appears to be an ingrown hair, looked exactly like when I've had an ingrown hair. So I cleaned it real good, pushed out the hair and speck of yellow, and cleaned it again. Trying not to worry about this one, lol.

[mekasmom]

Originally Posted by Pony

Not everyone has the reserves of time, energy, et al, to do CAE prevention.

I have to wonder how you'd feel if you posted about a hard decision you'd made - and explained - only to have someone say, "I'd never do that." Walking a mile in someone's shoes is a good idea, even if you only do it in your head before you post.

I wasn't putting her down. I was telling her that it is OK to mitigate damages, and giving an example. Actually, I was saying she may have gotten some bad advice in an excited state, and commiserating with her. It is absolutely tragic that this has caused strife in the family over the money lost in goats. I actually care about the fact her family is loosing so much money when it doesn't have to be that way.

Maybe I should have said it this way --"It's ok to mitigate damages and keep peace in the family. Stay calm, act slowing and it will work out."
Does that statement meet with your approval for my concern for her? I was young and very poor once. I know what it is like to be concerned with financial losses.