pen question

[mbcagle]

I am planning on purchasing a small herd for my backyard zoo ... I mean, homestead! We plan on enjoying them as pets as well as milking them. Since I have small children, I plan on getting dwarf nigerians. My question is ....

If I have a buck and a wether in a pen, how far away from my does in milk do I have to keep them in order to keep them from tainting the milk.

And while I have your attention, how bad do they smell?

Oh yea, also, how much square foot area per goat do I need for them to be happy? I have only an acre (a lot of it is planted in food crops).

Thanks!

I will be working up to having enough milk to feed my husband and seven children!

[Alice In TX/MO]

The buck smell will NOT taint the milk, unless you wipe your hands on the pee saturated beard of the buck and then milk your doe without washing your hands.

[CaliannG]

Originally Posted by mbcagle

If I have a buck and a wether in a pen, how far away from my does in milk do I have to keep them in order to keep them from tainting the milk.

The idea that running bucks with does tainting the milk is a myth, and old wive's tale. Milk that is poorly or roughly handled, does suffering from sub-clinical mastitis, CL abscesses bursting in udders, and other very real sanitation and/or health issues cause "goaty" tasting milk.

Of course, if you went and rubbed all up and down a buck in rut and then dipped your hands in your milk bucket...yeah, that would probably taint the milk. But the buck just running with the herd of does won't do it.

Originally Posted by mbcagle

And while I have your attention, how bad do they smell?

Most of the year, not bad at all. But during a certain time of the year, when does are getting tail-twitchy, bucks put on their "special" perfume and stink to high heaven. However, since it starts slowly, YOU won't notice it...but your friends will when you forget and your sweet, loving buck rubs up against you right before you head off to whatever meeting you are heading off too.

Welcome to the world of goats!

Originally Posted by mbcagle

Oh yea, also, how much square foot area per goat do I need for them to be happy? I have only an acre (a lot of it is planted in food crops).

Nigerian Dwarfs, if you are dry-lotting them, can be stuffed with 25 sq. ft per goat... make sure they have all-they-can-eat hay at all times. If you want them to get some/all of their sustenance from forage and browsing, then 10 per for some and 8 per for most of their nutrition per acre.

[mbcagle]

I have about 1250 square feet that is already fenced with a 10x10 three-sided shelter. What would be the down sides of just keeping all of the goats together? If they can be next to each other, I could put in another shelter at the other end and just divided the lot in two.
It is actually an L-shaped lot with trees that have been trimmed so I can walk under them. There is no grass there at this time. I could plant some though.

Thanks

[Alice In TX/MO]

Goats aren't really grass eaters. They are browsers like deer, so planting grass would not benefit anyone but the seed sellers.

Just provide hay all the time and feed the milkers their grain on the milk stand.

Be sure you provide things for them to climb on and entertain themselves.
http://www.doubledurangofarm.com/id16.html

[CaliannG]

The down side to running the buck with the does 24/7/365, at it seems, really, that there is only one con to that set up for the first year:

You will never know your doe's due dates. They could be bred at any time.

You might think that isn't much....but come kidding season, when you don't know if your doe is due this week, next week, or next month, and you are staring are rear ends wondering if she looks a WEE bit swollen? And has her udder grown a bit? Have the kids stopped moving? ARRRGGGHH! I don't know if I should be worried yet!

In the second year, you have to separate the bucks so they don't breed the young doelings before they are ready.

[Backfourty,MI.]

Your fenced area sounds great for your does' but I wouldn't run the buck with the does' year around, I would make them a seperate pen with a shelter.
For one thing as Caliann already said you'll never have due dates. You might do it one year but I'm sure you'll figure out you don't like trying to guess when you should be home in case you need to help a doe with kidding issues.

Plus while your bucks are making themselves smell good, they'll be rubbing that smell all over your does' so then everyone smell's that good too!
Our bucks are just srting their rituals they do that make them smell inviting & they're already trying to rub on me then I smell that way too! Yuck!! But they sure are nice boys so I have to love them.

[mbcagle]

Thanks for all of the info! I suppose I could divide the long pen into two pens ... maybe I should double fence them with a space between them so they cannot make contact. Do I need to make them where they cannot see each other? ... or should the pens be far away? I could get them 100 yards away from each other without putting one in the yard ... which the neighbors would not appreciate!

[Alice In TX/MO]

I have adjacent pens in Texas. That way the girls show when they are in heat by flirting along the fence line.

[CaliannG]

I would make fences far enough apart that you can walk between the pens. Seeing each other is not a problem...they SHOULD see each other as, just as Alice stated, they will let you know when they are feeling frisky.

But by having enough space to walk between them, you reduce the amount of "magical flying sperm" in the air. This keeps you from saying things like "HOW did she get pregnant?!? I never bred her and no one escaped their pens!!!!"

[Alice In TX/MO]

SHHHHHHH! I wasn't going to tell her yet about those three does that must have encountered flying sperm.

[CaliannG]

Alice, you have totally overlooked the possibility that you do not have "magical flying sperm", but instead have "psychic teleporting bucks". In which case you had better hide them from the government!

[mbcagle]

Thanks!

Another questions since you guys have been so helpful! How many ND will 1200 square feet house .... I want them to be very happy and satisfied as they will also be our pets! For some reason my children all like having their own chicken/duck/quail ..... of course I doubt I can have seven NDs! LOL!

[Alice In TX/MO]

Teleporting? OK, I'm miffed now. If they can teleport, they had BETTER share that technique. It would make my migration from Missouri to Texas SO much easier!

I found a reference to "eight adult goats per acre" in my search. HOWEVER, I recommend you get two does and a buck, and try to keep the population growth under control in a couple of years. When the does have two to five kids at a time, the census blossoms quite quickly. Don't start at your max number. Start SMALL.

We started with two, and somehow it became 21 in three years. I'm back down to twelve, and I need to sell two bucks and probably put down one old doe.

[CaliannG]

If you can return to the seller for breeding, I would just get two does. Next year, that will be 4-8 goats, plus your original 2, and the year after that, 8-16 kids being born. In 2 years, you could be trying to stuff 20 goats in there and wondering how it got so out of hand! And that just from 2 darling, sweet little doelings!

[mbcagle]

LOL! I hear you about population explosion. We had rabbits at one time! If I only had one buck and two does AND I kept the buck separate, would I need to have a friend for him?

Also, I really want to use the ND for milk. How important is it to obtain goats from breeders who are actually milking their goats? There are some available from a breeder who is slowing down. They are registered.

Thanks for all of the help!

[LoneStrChic23]

Yes, your buck will need a companion. Either a wether or anotger buck.

I would not purchase a Nigerian from someone unless they were breeding for milk & ease of milking....A good producing doe isn't worth squat in my book if she's hard to milk.....Several ND breeders in my area breed for the pet market & you couldn't pay me to take one of them.

My mini doe has short teats... in the beginning I HATED milking her, it's got a bit easier, but the expirence had made me udder/teat obsessed.

[CaliannG]

mbcagle, where are you? As in, what state?

If you are going to get NDs, I'd REALLY suggest Jobi Dairy lines, as those are the ones I *know* are bred for milk production and, as the owner of the dairy says, "teats even a man can milk!"

If the ones you are considering have teats that look like they would be perfectly at home on a baby bottle, then unless you have hands the size of the average 9 year old, you are going to have a heck of a time milking them...and that tends to make people discouraged.

Yes, if you get a buck, you are going to have to, eventually, separate him from the does. However, your dry-lot enclosure for ALL of them is, basically, 35' x 35'. The does are not going to be so far away that he is going to feel lonely. If I were you, I'd make an enclosure, 5' x 5', within that area....then make another enclosure around that, about 2' from the previous fencing (Make it wire, so he can SEE the does, just not REACH the does through the fence.) so that he has SOME difficulty getting his magical sperm to fly... pop his happy butt in there once he starts to pee on his face, and then hand breed your girls in fall. Once they are bred, he can be let out with the herd until midsummer of next year, about the time when kids start getting weaned.

Then, you can use the enclosure as a kidding pen come spring, and later on, as a pen to keep kids together overnight so you can milk their Moms in the morning.

Keep in mind that once your does have freshened the second time, unless they are showing health problems, you might not NEED a buck again. You might choose to just milk them right on through for a few years.

[hardworkingwoman]

You guys I mean ladies are hilarious!

[mbcagle]

LOL! I agree that teats are of udder importance .... This coming from a woman (me) has been a milking machine over 7 of the last 15 years!

I live in North Alabama. I can drive a little ways if necessary to get a good doe or two.

Thanks for all of the help!