Kiko goats

[victory]

Howdy all! Hope ya'all are doing great! I haven't been on here forever! Real super busy lately plus VACATION!! YIPPIE!!

Anyways I have a client who is looking into getting a Kiko buck. The breeder she is talking to has bred for quite some time..seems to be pretty hard core to me..so I need to check out what she is being told as I have no idea about Kiko goats, and sure hope some of you may..

According to the breeder, they are much hardier than Boers. They don't need their hooves trimmed...huh??? Yea, he claims that they don't need the hooves trimmed...okay, also because he believes they are so much more healthier than Boers, they don't need any care at all, no vaccines, worming, etc etc etc..none of it..

So the client is fairly new to goats, and has learned to take awesome care of them, but I am a bit concerned that she is being led a stray, or is all this really true???

Thanks so much to the kiko experts out there!!

[copperpennykids]

NOT a Kiko expert. On the other hand, having bred top-quality Boers for so many years and somehow staying abreast of most things "goat" have gleaned a few things about Kikos:

1) Yes, they are supposed to need fewer feet trimmings than Boers. However, that is affected by both terrain and feed. Since there are so few Kikos in the USA it is difficult to make sweeping statements like this. BTW, I find this one tough to swallow, as Kikos trace back to Saanens, who need more regular foot trimming

2) Ditto on worm/parasite resistance. Our Boers are routinely wormed just twice a year. Good herd management and knowledge of the correct wormers to use makes a big difference in your success in this area. You have to realize that some folks/goat raisers/breeders don't want to do any extra work - and they are willing to accept lower weight gains on kids as well as higher mortality rates or lower numbers of kids born. On a spread sheet, a breeder may decide that having few or no extra inputs makes the numbers work out, even with higher losses - all depends on what a breeder/raiser considers acceptable.

3) This is from both Kiko and Kiko/Boer breeders: Kikos do not have as high of a meat to bone ratio as Boers do - even Boer/dairy crosses (75% and up) show better growth rates and better ratios

4) Last but certainly not least - with such a small gene pool of Kikos - unfortunately it is tough to find clean Kiko herds - most have CL. Extensive conversations with a gal who was doing Boer/Kiko crosses (by the way she loved the crosses!) - she had a very hard time finding a clean herd with good genetics. She eventually did, but had to pay a much higher premium to get what she wanted than if she has just gone with all Boer.

So have your friend meticulously check on CAE/CL status for sure.

If the price is HIGH, you have to ask yourself - how much do I gain with Kiko? 2% better with parasites? You can always use #s to skew the facts. Not saying this breeder is doing that, just remember waaaaaay back reading a study of 100% Boer vs. Boer/Dairy cross kids - the Boer/Dairy cross were 75%. The study ( on like 100 goats) showed that Boer/Dairy crosses had a higher Average Daily gain. So suddenly everyone wanted the crosses- but if you read the study, the difference was 2/10ths to 3/10ths better on the scales. Not a substantial difference, but the statement "The crosses show better gains" was technically accurate.

Finally, Kikos are supposed to do better than Boers in the humid South... Everywhere else, it is pretty much a wash, and of course genetics and common sense management make a big difference.

My 47 cents.... (Keep the change! LOL)

[ozark_jewels]

I'll just say one thing, having been a Boer person myself(and NOT finding all the flack Boers get about hardiness, mothering ability, birthing, worms, etc to be true!), and not personally involved with Kikos.

I have a good friend who was told a lot of those same things by a Kiko breeder. He bought in pretty expensive Kikos and started his herd. Not sure if it was all management(because he had some pretty nice genetics), but it was not a great success. His goats did ok, but not like he was told they would. They needed the same care my Boers got(minimal worming and hoof trimmings), the kids did not grow as fast and he never got out of them even close to the amount of money he had bought his initial stock for. Six years later he is completely out of the goat business.
My personal feelings are that with a little better management they would have been nice goats. But they still needed the minimal care that all meat goats need.

Personally, having seen this done, I would go with Boer/Kiko does and a FB Boer buck if I was going to incorporate Kiko blood.
The Kiko crosses do add some hardiness to the Boer lines. So does crossing them with good dairy stock in my experience. But nothing will add the meat like a good Boer buck.

Keep in mind there is good Boer stock and crap Boer stock. Good Kiko stock and crap Kiko stock.

[CaliannG]

Heck, you are in the U.S. Go with some good, scrappy Spanish does or SpanishxBoer does, and get a good Boer buck. The Boer will add the meat like nobodies business, but it is difficult to get much hardier than a Spanish, who have had centuries to adapt for North America.

[victory]

Copper penny kids,
Thank you SO SO MUCH for all that wonderful information..
I copied it all to my friend, and hope she takes it all to heart.
Pretty scary about the CL, as I will be keeping a buck at her place this fall.
We'll see what comes of it..
Thanks again!!