Alfalfa for bucks?

dragonchick · #1 06/25/11, 11:07 PM

I see many posts where bucks are fed alfalfa free choice. Will this not cause UC? I currently have 1 1.5 year old Nigerian buck and a 6 month old Saanen buckling. Currently they only get Bermuda hay. Should I be feeding them alfalfa pellets free choice as well? They also run with 7 females 2 of which are bred. I give alfalfa pellets to the girls after they deliver to help with milk production. And yes I know to introduce slowly.

I have not been graining the goats as they have quite a bit of fresh browse and weeds along with free choice hay. They all look good with the exception of a 4 year Nubian doe who always looks like a dairy cow, even if not bred. Thanks for any information,DC

Oat Bucket Farm · #2 06/25/11, 11:25 PM

The calcium in the alfalfa will not cause urinary calculi. An imbalance in the phosphorus to calcium ratio will cause UC. There are times when the goat owner actually causes the problem in their efforts to avoid it.

dragonchick · #3 06/25/11, 11:32 PM

So as long as the boys don't get grain, they shouldn't develop UC?

KSALguy · #4 06/25/11, 11:46 PM

yes grain is the main cause of UC in male goats, both cut and un cut, any kind of hay will be fine for them, hay and brows is mostly all bucks need anyway,

Backfourty,MI. · #5 06/25/11, 11:51 PM

Vicki McGaugh told me once when I had problems with a buck that got UC that she feeds her bucks a ratio closer to 5:1 calcium to phosphorus rather than the 2:1 that is reccomended most places.
I think it depends on the quality of the hay, etc. in your region but I also think there are other factors that can contribute to UC like high iron content in their drinking water & the goats chemical makeup.
I do still agree that for the most part it is from an imbalance of calcium to phosphorus though.

dragonchick · #6 06/25/11, 11:53 PM

Thanks everyone. The guys are growing well so I will leave things as they are unless something changes.

LoneStrChic23 · #7 06/26/11, 12:48 AM

This may be helpful:

http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/index.php?topic=13.0

dragonchick · #8 06/26/11, 04:59 AM

Thank you Lonestarchic, This may present a problem that I may have to find a solution to at delivery time. The girls have to have their alfalfa and grain to make milk at the rate I am expecting but this may be detrimental for the boys. I don't exactly have a way to keep them completely separate at feeding time unless I only give the girls their feed on the stand at milking time. Has anyone tried this successfully?

Alice In TX/MO · #9 06/26/11, 07:38 AM

I think *most* of us grain the girls on the feed stand and have hay and pellets out free choice.

rootsandwings · #10 06/26/11, 07:47 AM

I only give grain on the milk stand, milking or not.

well, except new moms - they get their grain in a pan on the floor of the kidding stall so kids can check it out. but once the kids figure out the grain - up on the stand they go!

I have a full grown buck who happily puts himself on the stand for nothing but a handful of alfalfa pellets so I can easily do his feet.

dragonchick · #11 06/26/11, 08:53 AM

I was more worried about the alfalfa pellets and the bucks. Would alfalfa pellets and grain on the stand be enough to keep production up? This would be 2x/day.

rootsandwings · #12 06/26/11, 09:06 AM

well, I can't compare, having only done it that way, but production here is great

Alice In TX/MO · #13 06/26/11, 09:18 AM

Dragon, that's what we are doing. Alf pellets, free choice hay in the feeders all the time.

Grain/lactation pellets on the stand.

LoneStrChic23 · #14 06/26/11, 10:59 AM

I have a trough I keep full of alfalfa pellets & a hay rack I keep full of grass hay.

I do not mix my alfalfa pellets & grain.

Grain is fed only on the milkstand.

My main pen is just girls, only two milking though so the others who are dry only get alfalfa pellets & hay.

My buck pen is just January/February boys so they are getting meat goat pellets & hay...... I mix ammounium chloride in the boys minerals. Once they are grown I'll replace the meat goat pellets with alfalfa pellets.

CaliannG · #15 06/26/11, 01:11 PM

dragonchick:

In the area where you live, are there places now, or do you remember while growing up, large rust stains that occurred around the drains of sinks and bathtubs?

If so, then your groundwater is high in iron, and your bucks/wether/male goats would not be hurt, and would likely be helped by an addition of alfalfa pellets to their diet.

Regular grass hay and browse averages at 1.8 - 1 Calcium to phosphorus ratio. Alfalfa, either hay or pellets, averages 6 or 7 : 1 Calcium to phosphorus ratio. By adding alfalfa to their diet, you can average out their calcium: phosphorus to 3 or 4:1, which nearly guarantees that they WON'T get UC as long as you do not feed grain.

As I mentioned in another post, every goat on my place, male, female, milking, breeding, dry, or whatever, gets all-they-can-eat hay, browse and alfalfa pellets. Those things are what make them healthy.

Only when they NEED the extra calories, when they have extra demands on their system like trying to grow up big and strong, trying to make babies, trying to breed, or trying to make lotsa milk, do they get grain...and in that case, they get it on the milkstand.

Alfalfa pellets is just an easier, less wasteful and more economic way to feed a really high quality legume hay...and boys need high quality too.

dragonchick · #16 06/26/11, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliannG

dragonchick:

In the area where you live, are there places now, or do you remember while growing up, large rust stains that occurred around the drains of sinks and bathtubs?

If so, then your groundwater is high in iron, and your bucks/wether/male goats would not be hurt, and would likely be helped by an addition of alfalfa pellets to their diet.

Regular grass hay and browse averages at 1.8 - 1 Calcium to phosphorus ratio. Alfalfa, either hay or pellets, averages 6 or 7 : 1 Calcium to phosphorus ratio. By adding alfalfa to their diet, you can average out their calcium: phosphorus to 3 or 4:1, which nearly guarantees that they WON'T get UC as long as you do not feed grain.

As I mentioned in another post, every goat on my place, male, female, milking, breeding, dry, or whatever, gets all-they-can-eat hay, browse and alfalfa pellets. Those things are what make them healthy.

Only when they NEED the extra calories, when they have extra demands on their system like trying to grow up big and strong, trying to make babies, trying to breed, or trying to make lotsa milk, do they get grain...and in that case, they get it on the milkstand.

Alfalfa pellets is just an easier, less wasteful and more economic way to feed a really high quality legume hay...and boys need high quality too.

Thank you. The water in some places here is high iron, however our water comes from a rural well that supplies the entire town of 300. Its filtered and treated so I think the iron has been removed. I don't see any rings in their water buckets. This may be a different story for the grass content, if grass takes up iron.

How many bags of pellets do you find your goats eating per week?

julieq · #17 06/26/11, 10:23 PM

We've always fed alfalfa hay free choice to our bucks. No experience with alfalfa pellets or cubes though. They get very limited amounts of grain in the AM just to get the vitamin supplements down. We occasionally (as in when we remember) add ammonium chloride to their loose mineral salt. We've never had a case of UC (knock on wood).