Updating my notebook; a few questions

[bknthesdle]

When grain is mentioned, does that mean goat pellets or actual grain? if grain, what kind? Premade or homemade?

I know bucks and wethers need ammonium chloride. Can that be bought separate and added to feed? I know TSC has a mineral that has it already in it.

Ivermectin and cydectin can be used orally in goats. Cydectin for kids and ivermectin for adults? What are the dosages?

At what age do you start the cocci treatment on kids? What age do you quit the cocci treatment?

Tums can be used for bloat? Along with a baking soda drench, tummy rubs & walking around?

Yogurt is a probiotic. How much should you offer a goat if it's needed?

Do you vaccinate for pneumonia?

[LoneStrChic23]

Your going to get several different answers for this one.

Milking girls/does in the latter half of pregnancy & dam raised kids get "grain". My grain is 3 parts whole oats, 1 part Purina Dairy Parlor 16%, 1/2 part BOSS, I mix it myself. My bucks are all young (Jan-Feb bottle boys) so they get Medicated meat goat pellets & grass hay until they are finished growing.

All goats get loose minerals, Right Now Onyx by Cargill free choice. I mix in AC in the boys minerals (bought a bag from Hoeggers).

Girls get unlimited alfalfa......it's the backbone of their diet. Alfalfa makes the milk, grain is only given on the milkstand. Grass hay is available 24/7 for all goats. I prefer to use Standlee brand alfalfa pellets from TSC.

Various dewormers, coccidia meds & dosages are here:
http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/index.php?board=12.0

I start coccidia prevention at 21 days old. 5 day round, repeat every 21 days. Corid is a PREVENTATIVE & does not completly kill off everything. Drugs like Di-Methox & Albon (Sulfadimethoxine) are TREATMENTS & give you a total kill.

I do coccidia prevention until well grown. My January Alpine buck just passed the 85lb mark & finished his last round of coccidia prevention.

I've never used Tums for bloat so I don't know.. I've almost always had Great Danes though & kept Gas-X on hand for them & have used it on a goat before in combination with typical bloat treatments.

I plan on vaccinating my does with Lysign prior to breeding, but am still undecided if I will do pastuerella (puemonia) or not.

Once my bucks are done growing they'll get mostly hay, a bit of alfalfa & grain while in rut.

[TheLoveOfGoats]

For "grain" I mix my own. For dry does and bucks/wethers I mix BOSS,Rice Bran Pellets and Dry Cob. For my milking and pregnant does I feed BOSS, Rice Bran Pellets and Noble Goat Dairy Parlor. Everyone gets free choice Alfalfa pellets, and orchard grass, free choice minerals and baking soda. And pasture time when nice out.

I buy the ammonium chloride from Jeffers and put it in with the minerals. Just be careful because you can over due it and risk ammonium toxicity.
http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ammo.../LIV/cp/AX-AN/

Worming meds for me depends on what the fecal's say. I do fecal's every 4 or so months and we have been worm free for 13 months now. I only worm when I need to.

I start cocci preventative at 3 weeks old until well grown usually 4-5 months or so. I use Corrid.... treatment is different and I use Albon.

I have heard of people using Tums for bloat, but never used them my self. I do a baking soda drench.

Ive never used yogurt, but use probiotic paste.

I do vaccinate for pneumonia, I show and dont want to take the chance.

[houndlover]

When grain is mentioned, does that mean goat pellets or actual grain? if grain, what kind? Premade or homemade?

To each his own. To me, grain would be something like cob and pellets would be just that - premixed ground feed with additives, or sundried alfalfa, rolled and cut into pellets.

I know bucks and wethers need ammonium chloride. Can that be bought separate and added to feed? I know TSC has a mineral that has it already in it.

I have never personally given AC to my bucks or wethers. They get browse, pasture, good horse quality grass hay, a good goat mineral, water, and when they are growing or breeding, a lower protein dry all stock pellet, 1 lb per 100 lbs a day. No sweet feed, no grain, no alfalfa. I've had 4 bucks and 20 or 30 wethers raised to market age and never had a case of UC. Feed my boy sheep the same way with the same results. They don't make milk, they don't need the empty high calories.

Ivermectin and cydectin can be used orally in goats. Cydectin for kids and ivermectin for adults? What are the dosages?

Whatever dosage kills the load. Get a fecal. Ask around and find out what other goat people IN YOUR AREA are using, and what dosage. Cydectin doesn't work for me. I use Ivermectin at 1 CC per 30 lbs. I have a friend in eastern WA that uses it at 1 cc per 50 lbs. It's pretty hard to overdose.

At what age do you start the cocci treatment on kids? What age do you quit the cocci treatment?

I only treat sick kids. I use preventative starting at 3 wks, but only in my Sr and intermediate kids (Jan thru Mar). The preventative usually goes until they are fully weaned, about 4 months.

Tums can be used for bloat? Along with a baking soda drench, tummy rubs & walking around?

Tums are not strong enough. They are good for calcium intake in preggo goats though. I start with baking soda, then go to mineral oil for over eating or charcoal for poison, tube, call the vet. Keep them up, not necessarily walking, but standing.

Yogurt is a probiotic. How much should you offer a goat if it's needed?

My goats like any of the flavored activia. I give them an entire cup of it.

Do you vaccinate for pneumonia?

No.

[Backfourty,MI.]

Yes goat pellets or homemade feed with oats, BOSS, cracked corn barley, etc. are all considered grain. If your feeding a pelleted goat feed from the store it's just grain.
I feed my does a mix of grains that I mix up. The boys get a pelleted feed with ammonium chloride in it & then I also add AC to their mineral.

YES, I think the males need ammonium chloride.

I use Cargil's Right Now Onyx mineral, baking soda is left out on one side of the mineral dishes for all the goats. the boys dish is where I add the ammonium chloride. I order mine from Jeffers usually.

Cydectin wormer for kids & adult goats, depends on the type of worm your treating. I would try not to give Ivermemctin to goats under 6 months of age unless really needed but I know folks do & haven't had ill effects from it but I just don't like to chance it if I don't have to.

When I need to give someone probiotics I use the probios paste & I just give them a good size glob, no measuring for me with that.

I do not give pneumonia vaccines, I do practice cocci prevention & do 3 rounds at 3, 6 & 9 weeks of age for 5 days each time. I do us the Di-Methox & have always used the same here.

If I give something to one of my goats for bloat usualy I use baking soda or Gas X & those work, I do have a bloat relief liquid I ordered but so far never needed to use it.

[Alice In TX/MO]

When grain is mentioned, does that mean goat pellets or actual grain? if grain, what kind?

To me, grain is grain, but that's not true for everyone. The feed mix that the milkers get is 50% Kent dairy pellets, 35% oats, and 15% BOSS.

I know bucks and wethers need ammonium chloride.

It's available from Hoegger Supply as a stand alone supplement to add to feed

Ivermectin and cydectin can be used orally in goats. Cydectin for kids and ivermectin for adults? What are the dosages?

This website has a list of dewomers and dosages, also coccidia treatments:
http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/index.php?board=12.0

At what age do you start the cocci treatment on kids? What age do you quit the cocci treatment?

Start at three weeks. Treat every three weeks till weaning at least. Some go longer.


Tums can be used for bloat? Along with a baking soda drench, tummy rubs & walking around?

I don't use Tums for bloat.

Yogurt is a probiotic. How much should you offer a goat if it's needed?

If you can't get a probiotic designed for goats. The best thing would be to build your medicine supply with goat probiotics in the fridge to have on hand in an emergency.

Do you vaccinate for pneumonia?

NO. But I do vaccinate for e coli and staph.

[Cheribelle]

I got ammonium chloride from the feed mill, it was Cheap! Little over $1 for a pound of it.

[bknthesdle]

I am happy. I actually found CMPK yesterday to add to my goat medicine cabinet. I also found a place that carries CD Antitoxin. They were out right now, but at least I found where I can get it. I got some gas x and pepto as well. Slowly but surely I am getting stocked up.

I can't find any place that carries goat probiotics, but I did finally find a bag of goat electrolytes. But at $5 bag, I am wondering if homemade works just as well?

Still looking for activated charcoal too.

[ozark_jewels]

The answers to these questions are going to vary so much by individual.

Originally Posted by bknthesdle

When grain is mentioned, does that mean goat pellets or actual grain? if grain, what kind? Premade or homemade?

Depends on who you are talking too. For me, grain means feed of any type. I personally feed only *whole grains*. Whole oats and BOSS at a 3 to 1 ratio. Tried most other things and did not like the results. I like knowing exactly what my goats are eating.

I know bucks and wethers need ammonium chloride. Can that be bought separate and added to feed? I know TSC has a mineral that has it already in it.

I personally have never used AC for my bucks(I don't keep wethers past butchering age, 6-8 months). I feed them a small ration of grain when they are in rutt and recovering from rutt. They get free-choice grass/clover hay and browse at all times. They also get alfalfa every morning to provide the calcium they need to stay balanced. When not in rutt, they only get alfalfa in the mornings and grass/clover hay and browse available at all times.
If you use AC, I would not rely on the amount in the minerals to be enough. And same goes for the AC in the feed pellets. If you feed enough of the pellets to give them the AC levels they need, you are giving them too much grain. So if I was to use AC, I'd buy it and mix it myself. One of the feed stores here carries it, and I know you can buy it online.

Ivermectin and cydectin can be used orally in goats. Cydectin for kids and ivermectin for adults? What are the dosages?

Choose either Ivermectin or Cydectin and stick with it. Don't use both. I personally use Cydectin and have for over 8 years. I use 6 ccs per hundred lbs orally. I use Valbazen for small kids to get tapeworms.

At what age do you start the cocci treatment on kids? What age do you quit the cocci treatment?

I start cocci prevention in the kids milk at two weeks of age. I quit at weaning(6-7 months).

Tums can be used for bloat? Along with a baking soda drench, tummy rubs & walking around?

Mineral oil mixed with activated charcoal is what I like for bloat. Along with C&D Antitoxin, walking around and tummy massages. Best place to buy Activated Charcoal that I've ever found is Ameriherb(google it). You have to sign up to buy, but their activatyed charcoal is under $9.00 per lb. They also have great prices on other things I keep around like Vitamin C powder(ascorbic acid), Red Raspberry and Feverfew.


Yogurt is a probiotic. How much should you offer a goat if it's needed?

I usually give a full grown goat about 60 ccs down the throat. I like to buy fruit yogurt with good ingredients, they like the taste. Make sure it is live/active culture yogurt, otherwise it does no good. Most of the stuff sold is. The stuff without corn syrup, artificial flavouring and colourings are the best of course. You won't overdose them on it, so don't worry.

Do you vaccinate for pneumonia?

No, I do not. The only vaccination I use is CD&T.

[ozark_jewels]

Originally Posted by bknthesdle

I am happy. I actually found CMPK yesterday to add to my goat medicine cabinet. I also found a place that carries CD Antitoxin. They were out right now, but at least I found where I can get it. I got some gas x and pepto as well. Slowly but surely I am getting stocked up.

I can't find any place that carries goat probiotics, but I did finally find a bag of goat electrolytes. But at $5 bag, I am wondering if homemade works just as well?

Still looking for activated charcoal too.

Check Ameriherb for charcoal.
Any probiotics will do. Probios, yogurt. I really like Fastrack, but its not always easy to find.

Homemade electrolytes work well. But if you have a sick goat, Lactated Ringers are MUCH better. They are liquids given under the skin. Easy and life-saving many times. A really sick animal cannot assimilate liquids given orally where they can absorb the ringers given subq. Ringers come from the vet. They are the same thing you get in your IV in the hospital.

[TheLoveOfGoats]

I get both my probiotic paste and activated charcoal from jeffers. They have CMPK too. Well they have just about everything you may need. I get everything from Jeffers (or my vet). So much cheaper than a feed store.

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/acti...IV/cp/0040036/ It has electrolytes in it too.

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/prob.../LIV/cp/16564/

[ozark_jewels]

Originally Posted by TheLoveOfGoats

They have CMPK too.

I buy a lot from Jeffers, but the CMPK you want is injectable for sick goats/cows. Only vets sell that.

[bknthesdle]

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

I buy a lot from Jeffers, but the CMPK you want is injectable for sick goats/cows. Only vets sell that.

So... The CMPK I got isn't the injectible? Off to read what label there is.

[CaliannG]

bknthesdle, I use the oral CMPK in the after-kidding molasses water that my does get. I also like to put it in regular water during severe heat waves and deep summer. Works kinda like goaty gatorade so do NOT think that buying the oral stuff was a complete waste of money.

[ozark_jewels]

Originally Posted by CaliannG

Works kinda like goaty gatorade so do NOT think that buying the oral stuff was a complete waste of money.

No, but if you get the chance, do buy the injectable to have on hand for emergencies.

[bknthesdle]

Originally Posted by CaliannG

bknthesdle, I use the oral CMPK in the after-kidding molasses water that my does get. I also like to put it in regular water during severe heat waves and deep summer. Works kinda like goaty gatorade so do NOT think that buying the oral stuff was a complete waste of money.

Oh ok. That's nice to know. I have a while before I can breed and expect babies.

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

No, but if you get the chance, do buy the injectable to have on hand for emergencies.

I plan to the next time I stop at my vet's.