Girls due on friday- getting nervous!

[Willowynd]

OK, tried to post this on Goat Farm, but I guess most everyone gone since they are closing, so will try asking here....nubian girls were bred on Jan 25...looks like friday is the day supposedly.

Now I have whelped many a litter of pups, but this will be my first kidding. I know of no one else close by that can help me through first time....so have some questions. The one gal will come up to me and let me pet her and enjoys it, the other...she will come up but does not like being touched, won't run off when touched...but will back off away from you....so this should be fun
I have looked at some of the pics people have posted of prenant does, my gals do not look that big....wondering if they are just chunky but think I thought I felt some movement in gal that enjoys being pet. They have had udder development- my helper even noticed it.. but are not bagged. Would this happen in a non-pregnant doe at a and a half year old?

Next...I have stalls- should I start trying to feed the girls in stalls by themselves to get them used to it? Thus far, stalls have been left open and they do go in, but are typically fed in the open area of barn with the boer doe and wether. I plan to have them kid in the stalls...when do I try to get them in thier stalls?

Should I set up a hay rack in the each stall?

Now birthing, I think I can deal with but want to make sure I have the needed supplies on hand.

Towels
OB gel
gloves
iodine
clamp and scissors
feed bag for waste
Calf bottles with lamb nipples (the ones with a point)

Do I need any vaccines on hand (tetnus/CDT, etc?). I plan to let the babies nurse for 3 days then start milking once a day and feeding them a bottle of milk replacer once a day as I do not want to have to milk twice a day. I saw a few others on the forum had done this before...can you give me more details now that I am close to kidding?

How long do I keep mom and babies in thier stalls? I was thinking leave them in stalls for 3 days and then start letting mom out before I go to work, feeding babies and milking mom in afternoon when I get home, then letting them spend the rest of the afternoon and evening together in stall or separate pen from other goats.

How much should I increase the goat feed and how fast? Right now they each get about a cup and a half of ADM meat goat feed once a day (was a cup when they were not pregnant), 2 squares of hay and free pasture.

How soon after birth should I vaccinate mom and babies?

When do babies start getting feed?

Any other suggestions?

[thaiblue12]

No replacer, whole cow's milk. But I would leave them on their moms till they are at least 2 weeks old. I prefer a bit older so I know they can go longer without eating. Separate them at night milk moms in the morning but not totally dry, then leave the kids with them all day.
Babies do not start nibble at feed and such till they are 2 weeks old. They like to put things in their mouths but do not start really eating and drinking water before then. One bottle a day is not going to cut it for the kids. So I would wait to milk till they are 2-4 weeks old.

Yes you can keep them stalled for 2-3 days after they kid, they do not need to be stalled before then. They will separate themselves from the herd when it is time.

The does should have got CD&T a month before kidding. I do not vaccinate kids till they are 8 weeks old. It is a waste of a shot IMO if they have mom's immunity. Then 21-28 days later you give CD&T booster shot. After that it is just one shot once a year.

You do not need clamps or scissors, just 7% iodine for cords.

I check for hooves when they are getting ready to kid but other then that I do not interfer, pull on kids etc. if hooves are present the girls do well on their own. If there are not hooves present then you will have to help. If it is one hoof and a face and you cannot get the other hoof, gently pull downward to get the face past the vulva wall. Do not pull straight out or very hard.

If you are going to get them disbudded and have someone else do it, get someone lined up and have it done at around a week old.

[Donna1982]

I want to add most likely your does will become friendly right before. At least every single one of my moms has before they have given birth.

[Willowynd]

Thanks for the response
OK does did not get vaccinated a month before kidding. I can't see vaccinating a pregnant animal, I would think there would be reactions or issues with the babies. I would never consider vaccinating a pregnant dog or cat. Do goats not carry immunity longer than a year? I know they have found that dogs and cats (as well as people) can carry lifelong immunity after thier inital vaccines....and the shortest is 3 yrs. Anyways...so now what? Assume the babies did not get the immunity from mom and vaccinate earlier?

I knew they would need more than one bottle a day....they would be with mom for all but 8 hours eating, I would separate them before I left for work and then when I came home, I would bottle feed them and milk mom....then she would be with them again until the next morning. Would that not work?

OK...how do you find someone that disbuds? We have lots of boers around here, but I know of no one with dairy goats.

[thaiblue12]

Unless you really for some reason needs the does milk , it is not cost effective to pull the kids that young and bottle feed them if you are partly dam raising. Just let them stay with mom till they are 2-4 weeks old. Also mixing goats milk with cows can cause kids to scour or get constipated. Replacer is fake food and can cause lots of issues, one being bloat and I never use it.

Lots of people vaccinate pregnant does, they are not like dogs or cats and the immunity passes onto the kids. It does not cause issues to the doe or the kids. Goats metabolize differently then humans, dogs or cats, I am not sure if you vaccinate for X numbers of years if they have lifelong immunity or not. Some do not vaccinate at all. If you want to do the kids early you will need to do 3 shots instead of one or you can just wait.

For disbudding you can look at your local 4H and see if they know a dairy person. You can try your local feed store or even look on Craigs and find someone in your area selling dairy goats. Or run your own ad on Craigs asking for a disbudder and tell them if you are willing to travel to them and how much per head you are willing to pay. I found one lady on Craigs that I did not trust and then I found my disbudder through the feed store and I love him and happily pay the $5 per head he charges

[Willowynd]

OK, I was under the impression that if you did not give the bottle early, it was pretty much impossible to get them to take a bottle later. I was also under the impression that bottle fed babies are less fearful of people. I know my boers took a long time before they would even approach me and still one touch and they back up (though now they don't run- they just back up). The nubian I have that was bottle fed early- she loves to be pet and is very easy to handle. Her sister was tried on bottle as well but did not take to it....she is not as spooky as the boers but still does not like to be touched, but will tolerate it if pushed without freaking. I would really like goats I can handle easily and be able to work with...worming time is a chore and takes 2 people or and a collie to accomplish as catching the boers is very difficult and holding them and getting the wormer down them takes 2 people. Now I can let them out of thier pasture and let them browse on the property and they all listen very well...they will come when I call and go back in thier pasture when I tell them....but if I need to do something with them hands on- forget it. My intention is to eventually move the ones that are not easy to work with, keeping babies from them that are.
As far as needing the milk...I would like to get started learning how to milk and start collecting milk for personal use..no point to having dairy goats if your not going to use milk right?
I found someone to disbud the kids...and she won't even charge. I do intend to find something to give her in exchange though if she will agree to that...maybe a couple turkey poults, homemade jam or something as I know it takes time and skill that I don't posess and I would feel guilty not giving her something for her trouble.

[Willowynd]

That is a relief! How long does that last?

Originally Posted by Donna1982

I want to add most likely your does will become friendly right before. At least every single one of my moms has before they have given birth.

[Manchamom]

If you haven't found them yet, everyone from Goat Farm Central is moving to The Goat Spot.

[LoneStrChic23]

I have found if you want to bottle feed start ASAP.

Are you wanting to bottle feed so you can sell the babies early as bottle kids? For tamer kids? Because you want the milk?

With Sabrina, my Alpine she had twin does. I knew I would sell at least one ASAP. She nursed them & starting on day #2 I put her on the milk stand twice a day to empty her out. Got her into the routine & it kept her udder even because the kids favored one side & the neglected side would just get painful looking full....

By day #3 I separated the kids for about 4 hours, milked mom empty & bottle fed the babies mother's milk (I don't drink the milk for about 2 weeks as her milk had traces of colstrum in it for that long and it didn't taste great), then turned them loose with her. I did this twice a day for the first few days until they understood the bottle.....After that I separated until they were hungry & fed 1 bottle per day. I used the pritchard nipple on a soda bottle.

Finally decided what doe to keep, sold one as a bottle baby at almost 3 weeks old, & then left my keeper kid on mom to get as much as she wanted 24/7 so she could grow & be bred this Fall/Winter. I stopped bottle feeding after her sister left and she's a tame baby.

Sabrina is a heavy milker......Her kids were born in March & even though she nurses my keeper doe 24/7, I still get 1 gallon per day from her!!! I think her genetics, plus me milking her empty twice a day from the very begining kept "demand" up, so her milk supply is always up.

My original plan was to let her nurse 24/7 until the keeper doeling was 4 weeks old, then I was going to put a wire dog crate with pellets, hay & water in the barn, lock the doeling up at night so she could see mom, but not nurse. Let mom fill up over night, milk her out in the morning, then let the kid have her all day long. This is what I did with my Mini Alpine & her kids.....But since Sabrina milks so much without me separating her doeling, I don't bother with it.

[Donna1982]

Originally Posted by Willowynd

That is a relief! How long does that last?

Actually mom has a few that even after birthing and weaning they are still friendly. I am guessing something to do with the momma hormones. Good luck though hope you have a easy birth and heathly babies.

[thaiblue12]

Well Willow is it your intention to sell them as bottle kids? It sounds more like you want to keep them and have them be friendly. Also if I remembered you wanted to only milk once a day and not get commited to twice a day due to time or lack thereof.
I have gotten 2 week olds on the bottle and once a 4 week old and once a 6 week old. Yes it is harder as they get older. Is the bottle feeding just to make them friendly?
All my dam raised kids are as friendly, some you cannot tell from the bottle kids. I spend time with them from birth, pet them, I do not pick them up off the ground as they hate it and they feel unsecure.
If these moms are on the skittish side when you have them penned after birth go in daily, give them some animal crackers, pet them, pet the kids, give them gently shoulder scratches etc.

I do not have the time to do what LoneStar does so I just make sure a few times a day I spend a few mins with mom and the kids even after they are not stalled anymore.

I have 4 bottle kids currently and they were totally pulled, their mom's do not know them since they smell of different milk. So if you were to pull them and feed them something else their moms could very well reject them and then you would have a full time bottle kid/kids. The year I ended up with 7 bottle kids due to rejection and other reasons I almost cried, lol. But I can feed 5 at a time without a lambar

So if it is your intention to bottle them something different and take mom's milk you might want to reconsider. I work outside the home and I just cannot milk mom then turn around and feed it to the kids a few times day. I just let the kids nurse and if I want to milk I wait till they are 2-4 weeks old to do it.
There are a few things to consider in what you want to go with, end up with etc.

Oh just make sure if you take them to get disbudded that they are on a clean towel or something that does not smell like another animal or anything, not too many people handle the goat and you get back fairly soon. I had one rejected after disbudding that year I was talking about. He must have come home with his booty smelling different and she wanted no part of him. Poor thing would call his mom, she would answer, he would go over and she would butt him away. Vicks and all that did not work.

[LoneStrChic23]

LOL Thiablue.... I didn't really have time for it either!

But Sabrina stealth kidded on me when I had planned on pulling at birth before she even touched them. I got to the barn after they were dry & nursed & she was in full mommy mode...Didn't have the heart to pull them after she had bonded to them.

Plus, I originally didn't plan to keep one.....but seeing Lilly & deciding she was mine left me in a spot. I didn't want the other doe, wanted her sold as a bottle kid, but didn't want to strictly bottle raise because once the other kid was sold, my keeper doeling wouldn't have a companion if she was strictly a bottle kid. I wanted the sold doeling to be well established on a bottle so her new owner would have things as easy as possible. Hence all the extra work & time spent on pulling kids & bottle training.

Once that doe was sold shortly before 3 weeks old I was DONE! lol The keeper kid never got another bottle & I milked mom twice a day for milk for our use

If handled, dam raised kids can be friendly too. If Willow is only worried about friendly kids & milk for her use, I'd separate the kids at night, milk mom in the mornings, forget the bottles & spend time in a smaller pen with mom & babies each day petting them & giving treats...

[hyamiranda]

As far as starting them on a bottle after being on mom- I've gotten a weaned 3 month old to start on a bottle that had been strictly dam raised, so it's not impossible. I've even seen month old calves that had been raised on the range with their mom take a bottle. As the others have mentioned, it depends on what you're going for.

[Willowynd]

OK, thanks! That helped clear things up! I will wait until they are 3-4 weeks old and then start pulling kids at night, milking her in the morning and letting them spend the rest of the day together- no supplemental bottles needed then right? I had thought the difference between freindly and skittish was the bottle feeding.

OK now if someone can be so kind to let me know what to increase...the girls look thinner today along the top and I am feeling ribs where just a few days ago I felt flesh. They have 24/7 access to pasture, get pellets in the afternoon, hay morning and evening. Someone told me more hay, someone else told me more goat feed....I am thinking more goat feed. I erred on the cautious side and increased both today....but what amounts should they be getting at this point? Is now the time they should be increased?

[thaiblue12]

During the last month of pregnancy you increase grain on full size does, with the small does you decrease so they do not have huge kids. Hay is left out free choice here, I use grass hay since I feed alfalfa pellets. Are you feeding alfalfa at all? It is needed for calcium.
Yes no bottles needed if you pull them at night, just do not milk mom totally dry so the kids can have some when you put them back together in the morning. Give them hay and some pellets or whatever you are using, just a bit at first or they will scour. Soon they will learn that food comes when they go into the stall. Keep the kids together so they are not lonely, you do not have to separate them by whose kid is who. By then the moms know them well and won't get confuse as to whose kid is who.

Just make sure you spend time with the kids from birth, pet them, scratch them, let them nibble your fingers etc. Do not pick them up, they will scream and mistrust you after that for a bit. Goats are nosy so if you sit in there they will come to you, get in your lap and eat your clothes.
I have really annoying dam raised kids who paw me, eat my hair, run to me for petting, jump on my back if I bend over, want treats and etc just like bottle kids. Only difference is they do not scream at the door 3 to 4 times a day for a bottle, make me run home from work to feed them then turn around and go back to work.

[Willowynd]

I feed alfalfa hay from the dairy farm. I have never left it out free choice as I swear they would go through a ton of hay and they have maintaned a good weight up to this point on what I have been feeding. OK, I will increase thier pellets. Thanks for the info!