improving home made grain

[TroutRiver]

I just figured out the nutrient analysis on my home made grain mix that I feed to my 2 does, and I'm not sure what to think of it. It seems to be much higher in fat and fiber than most dairy feeds on the market, and a little lower in protein. It's a mix of cracked corn, whole barley, whole oats and BOSS. The total protein is about 12%, fiber is 14% and fat is 13%. They also get free choice alfalfa pellets, which are 16% protein, 2% fat and 28% fiber, in addition to good hay and pasture, and a loose mineral.

Do I need more protein? the farm that I work at has been very careful with protein this summer since a lot of commonly seen hot-weather problems in cattle are actually a result of too much protein in the diet, which has me paranoid about feeding a lot of protein this time of year. But I also know that cattle and goats are very different...

[Alice In TX/MO]

You are dead on about too much protein and heating. How much of this grain mix are you planning to feed per goat per day?

I just cured a long standing sore footedness problem in my Saanen/LaMancha cross by cutting her milk stand feed ration in half. I was advised to do this by a veterinarian who is a bovine lactation expert. He was absolutely right. Her milk production dropped only minimally, but her joints and feet aren't sore!

[TroutRiver]

I don't feed very much grain, and was not feeding any until about a month before the does kidded. Right now they get about 3.5 cups per day.

[Alice In TX/MO]

My Saanen/LaMancha cross who is a HUGE goat, is getting about that much grain on the milk stand now. I need to go measure it.

I think we (loving, caring, overzealous goat owners) are overfeeding a lot of our goats.

[ozark_jewels]

Something that very few goat owners know, but dairy cow people tend to get, is that grain does not make milk. Forages make milk. Alfalfa, clovers(in the case of goats, browse), and good grasses/hays.
Grain mostly feeds the lactating animals body to keep it in condition and allows it to produce milk to potential. Grain allows the animal to maintain condition, which enables her to milk. On the surface this may seem that more grain equals more milk. Not usually so. You want to feed just enough grain to maintain optimal weight on your animals, which allows her body to put more milk in the pail. Too little grain and the body is labouring to maintain itself which takes milk out of the pail. Too much grain/protien and the body starts labouring under more stress and milk production falls.
It is a balancing act. In my experience the best way to know what works for your animals is close observation, not what some feed company says. Remember, feed mills and feed companies need to sell feeds.
Too much grain is detrimental to health. Too high a protien in the grain is detrimental to health.
No grain will ever make up for poor forage.
Of course, some people tend to lump alfalfa pellets in with grain. They are not, they are a form of hay/forage.

[TroutRiver]

Interesting. My concern on cutting back on grain is that I have one nubian who is REALLY thin and frankly she looks terrible. Vet has done fecal and found nothing to be concerned about. I ordered ivomec plus today but supposedly it will be 2-3 weeks before I get it

She has had a copper bolus but probably needs another, but I'm hesitant to do that right away because there might be something tying her up so she's not absorbing the copper. Her coat still looks just awful, thin and wirey and brown and uneven. If you guys saw her you would be sure that she was being starved and neglected, but I really am doing everything I know to do for her. She's only 4 years old and looks much, much older.

EDIT: I am also giving her extra zinc, which has improved her skin condition quite a lot, but it is still dry and flakey.

[ozark_jewels]

When you give the copper, do you give selenium too?? The things you describe can also be selenium deficiency related. And copper/selenium work together.
For a thin doe, I would not feed more protien. Protien doesn't add weight. Have you tried mixing some beet pulp with her grain?

[TroutRiver]

I have been told that beet pulp is basically just filler, and that there's really no nutritional value in it. So no, I haven't used it.

I have given her a vitamin e/selenium supplement as well, I think it was around the same time that I gave the copper bolus, but I don't remember for sure. I really need to start marking these things down on the calendar.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Article about nutritional value of beet pulp.

http://www.shady-acres.com/susan/beetpulp.shtml

[Creamers]

You want to use Rice Bran pellets, IMO. Wonderful stuff. I use it was our rescue horses, goats, and it is wonderful - cool - calories.

[Slugmar]

I don't know how to say this correctly this is only my second year raising goats but I have always been told that alfalfa (bales) is a pretty rich feed to begin with would that be the same with the pellets ? if that is the case adding the grain to that would make it even burn a little hotter ?

most of my animals are all grass fed (red/white clover) that we have growing in the fields except for the weathers I'm trying to get out to market there on a meat goat feed which is 16%.

The only body condition problem I'm having so far is with an older billie that had a foot problem (vet found a toomer under his pad near) Just had it removed hes limping around a little but starting to eat more.

[TroutRiver]

It has been stressed to me that it's important to feed free choice alfalfa pellets with a mainly grass diet, to add some roughage. Goats are not designed to eat primarily grass, but they will. I have a lot of great diversity in my pasture and a good amount of "brushy" plants. It would make a horrible cow pasture but actually it's pretty nice for goats. I do not mix the alfalfa pellets with the grain anymore (I used to) so they can eat as much or as little as they want. I also don't offer the alfalfa pellets on pasture, because they kept spilling the dish and wasting them. So they have alfalfa and hay available when they come in.

Clover is also extremely high in protein, so wouldn't that cause the same issue? I'm not trying to dispute you, just trying to figure this out...

also, an interesting side note that I just learned from a grass fed (cow) dairy conference that I went to last week, different parts of the plant carry different nutrients. The leafy tops of grasses are much higher in energy, while the stemmy part of the plant is almost all protein, and sugar levels in the plants are dramatically different depending on the time of day. A lot of you probably already know this, but I didn't and I thought that it was really interesting

[chewie]

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

I just cured a long standing sore footedness problem in my Saanen/LaMancha cross by cutting her milk stand feed ration in half. I was advised to do this by a veterinarian who is a bovine lactation expert. He was absolutely right. Her milk production dropped only minimally, but her joints and feet aren't sore!

this is very interesting. I may try to drop the grain on my old girl. she came to me very lame, walking only on her knees. very foundered. she's been a good milker, but now I do not really need her milk anyhow, and since its painful for her to get on/off the stand, milking her is not fun. she's cashing in her retirement!

since I do not need her milk anyhow, I am going to try this, she gets to run loose all day with her buckling, eating whatever they pick--grass, forage, browse, or off the bale of alf hay. thanks for sharing this, I doubt she'll ever be 'not lame', but if she'd be more comfortable, it'd be nice, and cutting some feed costs won't hurt my feelings either!

I weighed my feed to be sure what they are getting. noble goat 16 says 1lb. per 2 quarts milk given. my container is then 2lbs of feed. but I just realized, that is what I am giving each per feeding, that is all they need per day, right? they give around a gallon per day per doe, cept the big girl who does about 1.5 gallons. so cutting the feed won't ruin the productino?? it'd sure help my feed bill!!!

I have also found that giving them alf pellets on the stand makes them as happy, so i use it as a 'pacifier'.

[chewie]

Originally Posted by TroutRiver

It has been stressed to me that it's important to feed free choice alfalfa pellets with a mainly grass diet, to add some roughage. Goats are not designed to eat primarily grass, but they will. I have a lot of great diversity in my pasture and a good amount of "brushy" plants. It would make a horrible cow pasture but actually it's pretty nice for goats. I do not mix the alfalfa pellets with the grain anymore (I used to) so they can eat as much or as little as they want. I also don't offer the alfalfa pellets on pasture, because they kept spilling the dish and wasting them. So they have alfalfa and hay available when they come in.

Clover is also extremely high in protein, so wouldn't that cause the same issue? I'm not trying to dispute you, just trying to figure this out...

also, an interesting side note that I just learned from a grass fed (cow) dairy conference that I went to last week, different parts of the plant carry different nutrients. The leafy tops of grasses are much higher in energy, while the stemmy part of the plant is almost all protein, and sugar levels in the plants are dramatically different depending on the time of day. A lot of you probably already know this, but I didn't and I thought that it was really interesting

no, I didn't know all this, and thanks for sharing it!