Ulcers...

[thaiblue12]

Well I do not have one yet, but Pixie does. Although after the vet bill ( $330 including meds ) I am closer to having one.

She is full of sand, it is in her poop and in her stomach, the vet says when they have an ulcer they eat dirt/sand thinking it will make them feel better but it messes with the rumen and ability to form berries.

There are two kinds of ulcers, one is treatable, the other is not and has a death rate of 85%, so here is to hoping her bloodwork comes back with a high white count.
I am not sure I completely understood if it is a muscle, nerve or what but it runs along the neck and down toward one of the stomachs. It can be injured but butting of course, or getting stuck in fence. Which has happened if I do not catch that she is in heat before she gets stuck in the buck pen. However since she kidded in March she has not come back into heat nor gotten stuck, she might have been hit, but I am hoping not so that it is the treatable ulcer.
Either way she is my only horned goat and will be my last since I had no clue that getting stuck in fence and them trying to get free can cause this kind of injury.

He said she is in pretty good shape for what she is going through, and to keep up what I have been doing. He said without it she might have died by now, good husbandry he said; maybe he was complimenting me right before I got the bill to soften the blow, it did not help lol

He did teach me how to draw blood, he seemed happy to show me and it was quite easy. I also bought a nice big bottle of Banamine and a bottle of Lute while there. Three of my girls somehow broke into the cattle paneled buck pen, how it is mystery to me! Heck as soon as I heard what the bill was and realized my SUV shall now continue to leak power steering fluid for a bit longer why not spend another $50, lol.

Tomorrow I will get the results back on the blood work and he said she does not look like a Johne's goat, only 20% of them have the scours and are very unthrifty and she does not have the signs and to stop worrying about it.

The bottle jaw is not from parasites but from being anemic from all the scouring. She is suppose to eat Metamucil mixed with Rice Bran and she does not like it at all. I ran to town after I dropped her off at home to get these things, then got pulled over by a cop because my front plate is missing. I had to tell him and show him that I did in fact have it right here in the car and a goat knocked it off. He wanted all my info, license, registration and insurance then he ran "me" and came back with an offical warning. Oh jeez I thougth I was going to get a ticket.
Hopefully tomorrow morning she shall be hungrier, and will eat it. She also has to get 8 ccs of PenG a day for at least 5 days, I gave her her first shot tonight along with a peanut butter cookie and yet more Bounce back.

[QoTL]

No advice for me but have my fingers crossed for your girl!

Also want to thank you for your post! It always helps me to hear what others are going through, what the symptoms are, and how they are treating it. Sometimes, it even helps me to connect dots I hadn't noticed before so I can address something.

[jill.costello]

I'm sorry you're going thru this, but can I ask what the treatment will be for the ulcer if it is the treatable kind? With the horses, we give Ulcerguard, which is simply the horse-dose of omeprazole! (Like Prevacid, Prilosec, etc). Also, did he say how to rid the goat of sand? Is it also like the horses; by giving psyllium (SandClear / Metamucil, etc)??

[pookshollow]

Thanks for posting this! I had never heard that goats could get ulcers

[thaiblue12]

Yes Jill she is suppose to eat dry Metamucil mixed with rice bran, so far she refuses. The other goats who do not need it however want it, lol.
Today I am going to try to put in some broken up animal crackers and see where that get us.
She is to be given that along with a high dose of PenG for at least 5 days. He is going to get back to me today with the blood tests results and let me know about the Prilosec.

On a funny note she had eaten a tiny bit of that mix last night and then I was looking at her and thought she had some blood from her nose and mouth, I got scared for a minute. Turns out orange flavor Metamucil turns well orange and it was that and not blood, lol, d'uh

Me nether Pooks and here I was thinking heavy worms and treating her with all these wormers to no effect. Learn something new everyday and get your own ulcers from goats having one, lol. Goats never make anything easy do they

[Otter]

Wow Thai, she put you through the wringer! I've got no suggestions, just sending good vibes for both of you!

Just think, you won't have this problem when you move! Sand colic/ulcers are a localized problem.
Not much help, I know <<<hugs>>>

[julieq]

Originally Posted by pookshollow

Thanks for posting this! I had never heard that goats could get ulcers

Me either. Please keep us posted.

[thaiblue12]

So it is good news and some maybe bad news.....

Good news the blood work shows it is the treatable ucler
Possible bad news is she has such a high white count he is worring that it is abcessing

So she has to be on 8 ccs of PenG for 14 days that is a lot of poking on her poor thing.

I bought a tube of Vit B complex and a tube of electrolytes so that I do not have to poke her more or make sure she is getting enough Bounce Back. She liked the B complex but I gave her waaaaay too much of the electrolyte paste. It came out in a huge glop so I had to sit there and wash it out/down, poor girl I felt bad.

She hates the Metamucil so I am mixing it in her food and coating animal crackers with it, one way or another she is going to eat it. It has to be dry, too bad I cannot put it in water.

Oh and he said that Prevacid or anything like it would not help her and not to bother giving it to her, not sure why as it was relayed to me through the vet tech.

Hopefully the PenG and Metamucil works and she starts improving.

[julieq]

If she were mine, I'd add probiotics on a daily basis to replace the good bacteria in her gut (especially since she is on antibiotics). In humans, conventional treatment is with antibiotics, but probiotics are used sometimes as a nonconventional primary treatment.

We actually feed Supergain supplement to our horses and goats on a daily basis and one of the things it contains is probiotics. We also keep purely probiotic paste and powder on hand though.

[Backfourty,MI.]

I sure hope she makes it & starts eating & feeling better! Hopefully you won't get an ulcer too thai. Keeping my fingers crossed for the best.
I would have never thought a goat could get an ulcer! They just never stop testing us, surely keeps us on our toes anyways!!

[motdaugrnds]

You stated Metamucil should be given "dry" and that it won't mix with water. Does that mean you cannot mix it up with a paste either? In my ignorance of this type of situation, I am thinking, were the problem mine, I would be getting down the goat the same way I do copper, i.e. by powdering it on bits of "sticky" marshmellows; even mixing it up with the probias paste.

Is that Metamucil the same humas use?

[thaiblue12]

No it cannot be made into a paste either. It has to go down dry so that it will expand in her stomach (s) and move the sand out. I am mixing it into her food and making it coat everything, the alfalfa pellets, small bit of grain and some animal crackers. So if she wants to eat those she gets the Metamucil It is the Metamucil she hates, I did that and the rice bran in two separate bowls and she turns her nose up to it and will eat the bran. I only saw the orange flovered kind in the large container, so maybe she is not into citrus.

Julie she is getting Probios, I have the paste and the large pills I melt into water. She is getting so much goop shoved in her mouth I just melt it into water at times, can't hurt the herd to drink it and I just drop four of five in at a time.

I also learned that too much Banamine can cause stomach ulcers as well. It is hard to get a lot of info off the net about goats and stomach ulcers since most of it is about humans with ulcers drinking goats milk

I am going to call him this coming week with an update and ask about that nerve/muscle name that I already forgot, it started with a D. But we spent half an hour there and it was hard to remember it all.

[Backfourty,MI.]

My goats love orange slices, I bet it's because it's powdery. Goats never like the powdery fines, etc. at the bottom of feed bags or their dishes usually. I wonder can you put the metamucil inside a little peice of bread folded over it or something like that or maybe a marshmellow?

[motdaugrnds]

What about filling up a capsule with it and using a blow gun (lol pill gun)? (Some people get copper bolusses down goats in this way.)

[thaiblue12]

I can't remember if she was one who liked or hated marshmallows, I guess I will find out tomorrow. I will also rolling it into bread. Half a cup is a bit much for pills. I forced her to eat a dry tablespoon of it, then later she drank it, I know he said dry but I am trying anything here. I also found that they sell Metamucil cookies so I bought a box and she ate four.

She has been on the PenG for 3 big doses plus all the other stuff and she seems worse. Her stomach seems distended? But it has gotten lower and turned into a rectangle. Not sure if the front part of her chest is looking goofy due to weight loss or what. I gave her tums and a shot of Banamine. I know he said Priolsec would not help but she seems miserable today and not that into eating much besides hay, cookies and some grazing. But then again I keep shoving things in her mouth.

I have emailed these pictures to the vet as well but I doubt they will see them till Monday.

Poofy right between her legs, and you can see the rectangle-ness in the sides of her stomach:




Her stomach and then it gets lower and sticks out in a rectangle shape.

[Backfourty,MI.]

I sure hope she pulls through this thai after all your going through. Poor thing she must not feel good either. Sending Hugs to you & one for your doe too!

[Cannon_Farms]

could you not try using the sand clear? it does a great job with the horses. Poor girl how is her attitude?

[thaiblue12]

Well every morning as soon as I wake up I look out there to make sure she is alive. This morning I did not see her sunning herself with the rest at their dirt pit and my stomach dropped. Thankfully it went back where it belongs as I saw her standing in the barn doorway.

I do not normally have marshmallows in the house and I said the heck with it and I took two heaping tablespoons of Metamucil and one tbs of water and made it a paste. Then I made some animal cracker and Saltine sandwiches with it, she ate them all I know he said dry but paste is better then nothing.
I put a small bucket of Bounce Back water in the barn as well as a bucket of grass hay since she wants to be in the shade. She was eating hay when I left her.

She attitude is still good despite the fact that I am cramming things down her throat, pinching her with needles, making her drink water etc. She still comes when called and puts up with it. It does seem that after she eats some the rest has a harder time going down and she makes a small moaning noise, so I make her drink some water.
My feed store only carries the huge bucket of Sand Clear and I hate to buy it only to find out she won't eat that either.

So in the morning I do Metamucil, B complex paste and make sure she drinks Bounce Back water.

Afternoon Probios paste, Metamucil cookies, more Bounce Back water.

At night I give her the PenG shot, electrolyte paste, 12 ccs of Geritol Tonic and offer her Rice Bran and regular cool water.

I give her animal crackers anytime I am out there and figure if she eats it is it more calories plus a treat for being good about all this. The odd shape her stomach has turned into and that puffiness between her legs is bothering me.