Need Some Help With Bottle Feeding Kids

zoabarker · #1 05/28/11, 09:34 PM

HI all-
I am getting worried. We brought home 2 doelings on Thursday and we are having a hard time getting them to eat anything. They are 3 weeks old today. I was told by the breeder that they were bottle fed, but I am pretty sure that was not true. We started with the kid replacer, but then I kept reading not to feed them that, so we changed over to the whole milk, buttermilk, evaporated milk recipe that I got here: Clear Creek Farms

the problem is they will only eat an ounce or less at a time and even then I have to force them to eat... I am worried they are going to dehydrate or starve. Is this normal? Their little bellies are sunken in, instead of being rounded like adult goats. I don't know what to do. Any advice would be sooo appreciated!!!! thanks a bunch

mpete · #2 05/28/11, 09:40 PM

If that is all they are eating then you have the right to be worried

When I have a hard to feed baby, I stick them between my legs, lift their chin up high and give them the bottle... something about their chin up is more natural to them and that should start the sucking reflex. I would also contact the seller, they may have another tip that is successful with these two in particular... were they bucket or bottle fed?

nehimama · #3 05/28/11, 09:41 PM

Yes, it sure sounds like these were really not bottle fed kids. I think the best you can do is to keep at it. It's only Saturday. I'll bet that by Sunday evening, they'll be emptying the bottles for you. If it were me, I wouldn't mix anything up - just Vit D Whole milk from the groc store.

Don't give up! Keep at it, and they're bound to get it. I had the same issue with a pair of 2-week-old dam fed kids, and they're slugging down their bottles just fine now. It took about 3 days.

Good Luck! Please let us know how it goes.

Alice In TX/MO · #4 05/28/11, 10:00 PM

Ditto on the whole cow milk from the store.

zoabarker · #5 05/28/11, 10:05 PM

thank you!!! I am pretty sure they have never been bottle fed- the guy probably just told us that so we wouldn't be worried.... I just wasn't sure how long they could go without a full meal, so I thought I would ask!

not to go off topic-
but why does everyone say not to feed them the kid replacer??

Alice In TX/MO · #6 05/28/11, 10:26 PM

It's not milk. Baby goats are designed to drink milk, not soy products, preservatives, egg proteins (I found one formula with that in it), and manufactured food. It *very* often makes them ill, and it may cause slower growth.

It's the same question as "What's the best food for human infants?" Answer: Mother's milk. With goats, whole cow milk is closer to goat milk than this stuff as listed below.

One label:
Dried whey protein concentrate,animal fat (preserved with citric acid, BHA, and BHT), dried whey product, lecithin, calcium carbonate, dicalcium phosphate, L-lysine, sodium silico aluminate, DL-methionine; citric acid, calcium propionate (preservatives); ethoxylated monodiglycerides, propylene glycol, choline chloride, ferrous sulfate, magnesium sulfate, zinc sulfate, manganese sulfate, cobalt sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, folic acid, ascorbic acid, Vitamin B12 supplement, d-calcium pantothenate, niacin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, thiamine mononitrate, Vitamin A supplement, Vitamin D3 supplement, Vitamin E supplement, artificial flavor.

Helena · #7 05/28/11, 10:42 PM

Another idea for you...I use to always use the lamb nipples on the kids bottles. I recently had a little goat that would not take these. So happened to have regular human baby bottle and the kid took it well. It might be worth a try on this type. Good Luck !!!

zoabarker · #8 05/28/11, 10:56 PM

thanks- we actually have been using a human bottle for them! (yay doing something right!! LOL

)

zoabarker · #9 05/28/11, 10:57 PM

oh and thanks for the info on the milk replacer. I didn't realize it wasn't made from goat milk- I had never read the ingredients.

thaiblue12 · #10 05/28/11, 11:31 PM

I also use the regular baby bottles since I mainly have Nigies who do not seem to like the big nipples. Have you cut a good size X into the nipples? They do not drink well if it just has the standard small human kid holes. I also have raised all my goat kids on whole milk from the grocery store. They do well on it.

It does not sound like the seller was honest

3 week olds will take a bottle but it is harder. Even if scared in a new home a bottle kid will run for a bottle.

I have tried the under my knee thing and it is not very comfortable for me, so now I get on my knees and hover over them. They still feel like they are "under mom" and they do like my hair being close to them.

Make sure the milk is warm, the nipple is warm and you can give it a tiny squeeze so they get the idea. Hopefully soon they will be eating well for you.

LoneStrChic23 · #11 05/28/11, 11:47 PM

Definately feed only whole milk..... I don't add anything in other than 1 pinch of baking soda in one bottle per day.

My first bottle baby was on his dam & the bottle...when I got him home at two weeks old he had been on mom 24/7 for 3 days & wanted nothing to do with the bottle (he was sent with human bottle & nipple).

I switched to a pritchard nipple on a soda bottle.....held him between my knees, tilted his head back, forced his mouth open at the corners with one hand and put the bottle in his mouth with the other. Took three tries & a milk mess, but he finally did suck down the bottle. After this I still had to put the nipple in his mouth, but he sucked willingly as soon as it was in his mouth. Took him almost 2 weeks before he would walk up & grab the bottle willingly. So just be patient

Also, temperature is important..... they'll spit and sputter over milk that is too cool...hot milk obviously will burn..... I think the temp for milk should be 101° (someone correct me if I'm wrong there). I never tested the temp.... I just sprayed it on the inside of my wrist like I did to test my childrens bottles.....As warm as I could comfortably stand without being hot.....Started like this in the begining when he was small and around 4 weeks I started offering cooler bottles....each day I gradually offered cooler temps & after a week they were comfortably drinking cool milk.

Make temp changes slowly....don't offer warm one bottle & cold the next!

Good luck

LoneStrChic23 · #12 05/29/11, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoabarker

oh and thanks for the info on the milk replacer. I didn't realize it wasn't made from goat milk- I had never read the ingredients.

Yea....milk replacers are quite foul IMO.....I know folks who swear by them, but I won't touch 'em.....soy, by-products, eggs (no herbivore should consume animal proteins...to me its like offering a cow meat to eat).....the list goes on and on...

I started my bottle baby on whole milk from the store until my doe freshened....then I mixed it 1/2 goats milk, 1/2 cows milk until I was getting enough milk to switch to goats milk 100%.

In the begining he had 4 bottles a day, by 3 weeks he had 3 per day... I tried to make sure he got at least 60oz per day.

As he grew & could handle more without being overful, I upped his amounts.

At 15 weeks old he weighed 75lbs, so I think that says a lot for a whole milk diet

I would also put out hay for your babies, as well as medicated meat goat pellets for them to start nibbling on.

Also, coccidia prevention is IMPORTANT! Three weeks old is the perfect time to do their first round. It's done by putting the coccidia med in the bottle once a day for 5 days in a row (don't skip a day!) & repeat every 21 days.

You can use liquid Corid.......this is a preventative....it does not kill every life stage, but gets rid of the blood sucking stage allowing the kids to build a natural immunity to them...

If they already have a high coccidia load you'll need treatment, not prevention. Treatment is Di-Methox or Albon (drug name Sulfadimethoxine, sold under several name brands). I use the 12.5% solution since I don't have access to the 40%. Dosage for the 12.5% is 3.2cc per 5lbs of body weight. It taste foul so I add it to the 1st bottle of the day when they are most hungry.

Keeping coccidia in check will allow maximum growth & will prevent intestinal scarring which can negatively effect them later in life...

Oh & the pritchard nipple I mentioned eariler can be bought at Tractor Supply...2 pack is $5.00. They have a red, small nipple & a yellow ring to screw onto soda bottles. By far the easiest one I've tried with the boys!

LoneStrChic23 · #13 05/29/11, 12:09 AM

Here is a link with coccidia meds & dosages:
http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/index.php?topic=9125.0

stormywood · #14 05/29/11, 07:10 AM

I too have had this problem. So I fed warm whole cow's milk an ounce at a time, constantly, like every hour until they decided that they wanted more. Finally worked up to 3 full bottles. It was time consuming but they are healthy and doing great now. I tried to stretch out feedings thinking they would be hungry and eat more, no they didn't, so they ate one to two ounces at a time, alot. Keep at it and best of luck. AND PLEASE NO MILK REPLACER, I put them on the same forumula as yours whole milk, buttermilk, canned milk once they were eating 8 ounce bottles. Changed over slowly, watch their poop!

nehimama · #15 05/29/11, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormywood

I too have had this problem. So I fed warm whole cow's milk an ounce at a time, constantly, like every hour until they decided that they wanted more. Finally worked up to 3 full bottles. It was time consuming but they are healthy and doing great now. I tried to stretch out feedings thinking they would be hungry and eat more, no they didn't, so they ate one to two ounces at a time, alot. Keep at it and best of luck. AND PLEASE NO MILK REPLACER, I put them on the same forumula as yours whole milk, buttermilk, canned milk once they were eating 8 ounce bottles. Changed over slowly, watch their poop!

Stormy, it appears that your method worked out VERY WELL.

ne prairiemama · #16 05/29/11, 11:59 AM

How are they today? We have four bottle babies right now and our little doelings were used to bottles but were scared and didn't want to eat much the first feeding or two but after that took right to it

I hope yours will start up really soon!! Keep trying often. We also stood over them and held their chin to help them get it right like a pp said. Do you know how to tube feed? My dh does but I don't we considered that if they wouldn't have started eating soon.

zoabarker · #17 05/30/11, 02:02 AM

they are eating a little better today- but the most I have gotten either to eat at one time is about 2 oz. (They are eating 6-8 oz total a day) I am trying to feed every 3 to 4 hours.

I did notice they are eating other things- alfalfa and grass. I also found them eating chicken crumble (layer feed) So I guess their bellies aren't completely empty... but I still worried they aren't getting nearly enough milk.

Hopefully tomorrow will be even better!!

I appreciate all the advice and help from yall!!!

zoabarker · #18 05/30/11, 02:03 AM

oh and I don't know how to tube feed.... is that something I should do?

nehimama · #19 05/30/11, 06:47 AM

Zoa, I wouldn't attempt tube feeding at their age. Just keep at it with the bottles. Also, PLEASE don't let them eat the chicken feed. Stuff in that not designed for goats to ingest. Good Luck, and I hope they get going really good, really soon.

mekasmom · #20 05/30/11, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nehimama

just Vit D Whole milk from the groc store.

Don't give up! Keep at it, and they're bound to get it.

I completely agree with all of this. Whole milk in a regular baby bottle (is what I like to use), head up and stick the bottle in the lips. Drip a bit of milk into the mouth, and they should learn to suckle. They will go through about 2baby bottles at a time.
The problem is that dam fed kids shouldn't be sold that young. If they were planning on selling them, then they should have learned what a bottle was earlier. Not your fault, but it is the seller's fault.

I prefer to use regular baby bottles because they fit into my hands easier. If you have larger hands, you might prefer the ag bottles. And think about trying a sheep teat aka lamb nipple, for the bottle too. They work great for small babies and babies that have problems sucking.