Old Looking Doe

TroutRiver · #1 05/27/11, 10:52 PM

My nubian doe, Mama Red, has been having troubles since I got her about a year ago. She is doing better now than she was a few months ago, just had 3 healthy kids last week and is still nursing all 3 of them, but I keep getting comments from people about how old she is. My friend came to help with her difficult birth (first baby was backwards and crooked, she was pushing him into the side of her pelvis instead of pushing him out) and he commented that she was probably having so much difficulty because she's so old. He's not the first to have commented on how old she looks, and I agree, she does LOOK really old.

But she's only 4 years old.

I had a fecal done last month and the vet said it looked great, she is eating fresh pasture and browse, good hay (although none of them are eating much, if any hay these days, even though I do offer it to them) alfalfa pellets, whole grains (oats, barley, BOSS and a little bit of corn) and a loose mineral. She had a copper bolus a couple months ago. She is a little thin, always has been, I'm not sure why since the vet says she does not have worms. She has been tested for CAE and lyme, both tests were negative.

What would be making her look so old and frail? I am totally stumped, and the vet is too. I certainly can't pay the vet to keep coming out here, last time it cost me over $100 and he didn't tell me anything I couldn't have told myself. But I refuse to accept that that's just the way she is. There's got to be a reason for it...right?

KSALguy · #2 05/28/11, 12:19 AM

are you sure she is only 4? how many pairs of teeth does she have?

Laverne · #3 05/28/11, 03:05 AM

Are her bottom eyelids nice and pink? Thinking of Liverfluke which very likely won't show up in a fecal. Access to free choice alfalfa pellets at all times is important.

Alice In TX/MO · #4 05/28/11, 07:06 AM

Can you post a picture?

TroutRiver · #5 05/28/11, 08:30 AM

I'm not at home right now, but I will take pictures later this afternoon. Her eyelids have always been anemic and pale. They are better now than they were a few months ago, but still not as bright pink as they should be. Her summer coat is also growing in brownish (should be black) even though she was copper bolused recently.

Also, this is kind of alarming, I was giving her grain and "milking" her this morning (not really milking because she's still nursing triplets, but getting her used to the idea) and it looked like she was having contractions, she was hunching her back and making strange noises, and only ate about half of her grain. I am very worried about her, I've been struggling to get her healthy for so long and I just can't figure out what's wrong.

Alice In TX/MO · #6 05/28/11, 08:38 AM

I have an older doe who seemed like she *always* had pale eyelids / anemia. I finally had to get REALLY aggressive on deworming her with two kinds of dewormers at the same time in slightly higher dosages. Sounds like your girl needs another copper bolus, too.

Do you have iron heavy water?

Have you taken her temperature?

jill.costello · #7 05/28/11, 12:11 PM

Have you ever wormed her with Ivomec-PLUS? It takes care of liverflukes and I did see an improvement in my "more sickly" doe after I had used it through two worming rotations for her... I also saw an AMAZING turn-around after I "stole a cud" from a healthy goat and syringed it into her mouth and made her swallow it! Instant probiotics!!

Oat Bucket Farm · #8 05/28/11, 12:12 PM

Have you had her tested for Johne's? If her eyelids are pale, I would worm aggressively with Cydectin and Valbazen (or Ivermect plus, whichever you prefer for liver flukes). Also, if she has a worm load, it will interfere with the uptake of copper. How much copper did you give her? Some goats need a little more. Other problems could be high iron in the water. Look into the antagonists for copper and see if any of them apply to your area. Have you had her teeth checked to make sure she is able to properly chew her food and cud? Do you know if she had cocci as a baby? Cocci can scar the intestines making it forever difficult for them to absorb the nutrients from their feed.

TroutRiver · #9 05/28/11, 08:10 PM

I seem to have misplaced my camera... which is a bummer because I owe you all pictures of the triplets, too! I will keep looking, hopefully I find it tonight or tomorrow.

She has not been tested for Johnes and I don't think I have ever used ivomec plus, I will give that a try.

As for copper, I bought a single dose from Cannon Farms, I am not sure what the exact weight was on it, it came in 3 small capsules, I gave her all 3 at once.

Oh, not sure if any of you have been following or remember the troubles I have been having with this doe over the last couple months, but she used to have a horrible skin condition, lost almost all of the hair on her lower legs and they were covered in scabs and really crusty and gross. One of you suggested zinc, which I tried, and her skin is looking much better. It is still a little flaky and her coat condition is not great, but the hair has grown back on her legs and they are no longer scabby and gross looking.

jill.costello · #10 05/29/11, 09:47 AM

FYI, most give the Ivomec-PLUS injectable ORALLY. What I mean is, draw out the correct doseage with a needle on the syringe, then remove the needle and squirt the dose in their mouth. I usually add a few cc's of fruit juice to the squirt to make it not taste so awful, lol...

If I remember correctly, the dose is 1cc per 25 lbs. So, 4cc for a 100 lb goat or 6cc for a 150 lb goat, etc, etc.