Anyone ever done blood tests for selenium?

[madness]

We have all the signs and symptoms of low selenium levels. Our goats are from a nearby herd who doesn't do Bo-se shots. We adopted a practically identical management style to that herd but we are having problems whereas they aren't. In an effort to be scientific about things, we had blood drawn and tested on several of the goats before starting selenium treatments. We plan on testing again later to see how their levels have changed.

BUT, the blood tests came back that they DON'T have a deficiency. We tested the goat with the worst symptoms, one with no symptoms and a kid from a goat with a few symptoms. The kid did come back a little lower than the accepted limit but the dams were fine. Their numbers were 120 and 138 ppb with an acceptable range of 80-200 ppb (serum levels). Kid was 73 ppb.

We are still doing Bo-se shots but I'm just wondering if anybody else has gone through testing and what you found. We were really hoping that every single problem in our herd could be tied to this deficiency and it would be a "quick fix." Now I'm worried it won't be.

[Alice In TX/MO]

What symptoms?

I know that blood testing for COPPER isn't accurate in goats. Dunno about selenium.

[madness]

The whole shootin' match of signs and symptoms are in this thread.

I'd read in books (like Goat Medicine by Mary Smith) that selenium testing was good in goats. I've read several scholarly articles about the efficacy of selenium supplementation (for instance on goats in Mexico where they decreased the kid mortality rate with Muse shots) and they did this type of blood test too. I'm just wondering about other experiences!

[Alice In TX/MO]

I think Vicki's post on the other thread is pretty accurate. There's a selenium problem. There could be an absorption problem for some reason that is interfering with absorption on a variety of minerals. I'd bet cobalt also.

[HappyFarmer]

By reading your thread you have a selenium problem. Deficiency or toxitity I can't tell.

It sounds like you have some antagonists going on.

I've blood tested for copper and selenium and and the final outcome was we must have antagonists, though we've never had the birthing problems listed in your other thread.

We had a buck die (of pneumonia) and took advantage of the death for educational purposes and the liver showed some crazy numbers, selenium in particular I think was near 600.00 ppm if I'm I recall correctly (supposed normal is 1.0-3.00 or thereabouts). A search from fall 2009 (I think it was) will bring up the results, some suggestions, crazy numbers for minerals. Maybe you can learn something from it.

My only reason for posting is to let you know I feel your pain, and to make you aware the blood tests are not accurate, but liver tests are. From there you need to find out what is blocking the absorbtion. Not an easy task, one I've never accomplished for my herd. Pastures, hay, grains, and water all play a part in the intricate puzzle of minerals. We've made changes to the herd diet based on physical symptoms. Noone has died from deficient or excessive minerals. We adjust according to looks of the herd, we've found testing makes more questions than answers.

I also wanted to state that, vets can only recommend based on the test results-the copper blood tests and recommendations from our vet said no bolusing.....Despite his advice we bolus and the herd looks much better. He went on the results alone-not the symptoms staring him in the face.

Go with your gut, and the symptoms if you question your vets advise. It's not an easy answer. If I sound frustrated it's because I am (or was) until I dumped the blood/liver tests & adjust based on symptoms.

Good luck to you, I wish I could offer more, been there done that and we are no better off. I still miss that buck, tearing up for my wild boy still to this day as I type this, but he taught me my gut is the way to go.

HF

[madness]

HF, that's just the sort of anecdote I was hoping to hear. Not that I'm glad you had your fair share of problems, but that a single mineral blood test just might not be our answer.

Our vet did suggest we go ahead and go with Bo-se shots - and especially since we don't have an (obvious) toxicity.

I think we should copper bolus and Bo-se on a schedule for a year or two and see where we are.

Alice, I'll look into cobalt as well. Thanks.

[southerngurl]

I wouldn't bother blood testing for minerals. Think of it like this, just because your house payment is managing to get paid, doesn't mean you have enough money. Maybe you had to let your car go back to the bank to do it.

The body is supposed to have a store of minerals. It puts a small amount of minerals as needed out into the blood to be available for life sustaining functions like heart beat etc. But if there isn't much stored mineral to go around, certain cells may get short changed so the mineral levels in the blood can stay normal, without actually running out of the mineral and so those cells that are more necessary can get the minerals they need. So for example, you may have poor coat because the body doens't allow the hair follicles enough copper because supplies are low, but your body still makes blood cells. Or you may get a leg cramp from low magnesium, but your heart keeps beating.

The blood is always a snapshot in time as well. But generally the body has to be highly deficient to show in blood. At that point, you aren't even making the house payment half the time.