To test or not to test?

[emeraldcowgirl]

I've been doing a lot of research on CAE and I've heard both sides of the argument. Some people test because they want peace of mind, some people don't because they don't see CAE as being a problem. We're taking our new miniature doe to the vet on Wednesday for a physical and I was going to have her tested. But now I just don't know. If she has CAE, I'm not going to put her down or anything. I read that the CAE tests only test for antibodies so she might have the antibodies but not the disease. I wouldn't know for sure anyhow, right? I guess I'm just confused.

So do you test for CAE and why or why not?

Thanks.

[HappyFarmer]

We test for CAE (& Johne's, CLA, Brucellosis, & TB) so we know we are no purprotrating a disease. We test because we want the confidence knowing our herd is clean, and can brag about it, nor do we want a zoonotic disease.

We test also so we can have the opportunity to correct the issue should it arise, and pull kids (CAE) to work towards a clean herd. If we didn't test, how could we correct it if it should appear? Also we know that any animal in our herd has the best chance of living a full, long, healthy life without the fear of it being shortened because they can't walk, deteriorate, or spread zoonotic diseases.

For the $7.00 (probably more since your vet is doing it) why wouldn't you want to test?

HF

[prairiedog]

Yes we test. I could not breed and not know. I would not willingly pass a disease on to young. If I don't test I would not know.

[mygoat]

The CAE test is very accurate. If she comes back positive, she is positive. The only time it's unreliable is when they are younger than 6 months old and perhaps have come in contact with a little CAE positive milk, say, when bottle feeding. Or, when adults pick it up laterally and they are still within the 6 month incubation period of the disease. All diseases are like this, which is why yearly testing is essential for reliable results. Sometimes young kids on the bottle don't turn positive after just a little milk from a positive doe in the string and tests earlier than 6 months will show antibody response and may test negative later, which is why testing goats only over 6 months is advised. But dam raised kids on a cae positive doe WILL be positive.

For the sake of all that is goaty, test your goats. You don't HAVE to butcher her. Use her milk for the house for people milk, and raise her kids on prevention, getting disease free colostrum and milk elsewhere. You can even use whole cow's milk from the store once you're done with colostrum. I've heard of a few herds that have a couple CAE positive does in with their main herd. They test yearly and don't use those doe's milk for feeding kids, and so far no kids or does in years have converted. That being said, I personally onwed a CAE positive doe who picked it up horizonally in the herd before mine, though before that she was negative so she picked it up through normal contact in a herd. Thankfully, she only spread it to one doe in my herd because that doe was a milk-stealer, and got into the milk bucket with the CAE positive doe's milk a time or two before I tested.

No disease is a 'big deal' until they become symptomatic. Why anyone would think any contagious, profit killing disease is 'no big deal' is beyond me. Except that it's 'easier' to disregard it. First, kids rarely do go encephalic, but it does happen and it's a terrible death. Goats with swollen knees are in excruciating pain. Positive does may not show signs of pain or swollen knees but OFTEN suffer from super hard udders that are difficult to milk along with drastically reduced prodution, even if 'asymptomatic' otherwise. Ethically, kids out of CAE positive herds should be bottle raised on strict, isolated prevention, meaning all birthings must be tended dilligently and kids removed with no contact with their mother, and you'd need an outside source of colostrum and milk. You can just use the milk from negative does but that's risky if the does all live together, who knows if lateral transmission has occured since the last test?

Would you want to be the kind of person that sells diseased stock to people, especially 4-h kids or other youth? I had to butcher my beloved Dance and Heidi when I was 17, after I found out they were CAE positive. I had bought Dance from a big name show breeder who claimed CAE was 'no big deal', and Heidi stole her milk out of the milk pail a time or two. I had no ability to maintain a CAE positive doe, and had no other options. I couldn't sell her, ethically, and I figured the most humane and reasonable thing to do would be to butcher them. Hardest thing I ever had to do.

[Laverne]

It's playing Russian roulette. I want a productive doe. Will she freshen with a hardened udder and no milk or not.

[TennesseeMama23]

Originally Posted by emeraldcowgirl

I've been doing a lot of research on CAE and I've heard both sides of the argument. Some people test because they want peace of mind, some people don't because they don't see CAE as being a problem. We're taking our new miniature doe to the vet on Wednesday for a physical and I was going to have her tested. But now I just don't know. If she has CAE, I'm not going to put her down or anything. I read that the CAE tests only test for antibodies so she might have the antibodies but not the disease. I wouldn't know for sure anyhow, right? I guess I'm just confused.

So do you test for CAE and why or why not?

Thanks.

It is good to know. Just because they are positive doesn't mean they will be symptomatic. There are many factors to consider, then you can make the best choice for yourself. If you aren't planning on culling (fine by me), you would like to know so you can prevent it in future offspring (at least to monitor, so if there are problems you know what is causing it).

I had a symptomatic doe, which presented as a hard lumpy udder. I had to get rid of her because her udder was unproductive. It was a pain in the butt, and I lost a lot of money on her. I got rid of all my +stock, and raised all babies on strict prevention (so much work).

If I were just starting out there would be no question... I would test.

Since I am pretty sure of my goats' negativity, I don't mess with testing. I do recommend you test if you are just getting into goats. So much easier to do it right the first time than to fix mistakes and deal with problems.


Hope you enjoy your new goat!!

[Alice In TX/MO]

Absolutely test!

[LoneStrChic23]

CAE is not a death sentence. There is no reason not to test.

Test the doe, IF she is positive, but no in pain or showing symptoms, it can be managed. Many people started out with positive stock, & by testing, proper management & strict CAE prevention, they were able to work their way up to clean herds.

There is not a single reason to remain ignorant of your animals status when testing is readily available & cheap. Your doe (if she came back positive) may live a long, comfortable life & never show a symptom......If you allow her to raise her offspring though, thus letting them become CAE positive, you have no guarantee the offspring wont show symptoms, lowering their quality of life. Why chance having future generations who may have to deal with the painful symptoms that CAE can cause.

Test her, if she's not showing signs & you choose to breed her, attend the birth, pull offspring before she even touches them.....raise on heat treated or store bought colostrum & pasteurized milk or store bought whole cows milk.....In one generation you'll have clean stock. It does require work & separate living quarters, but it can be done.

Now, if she were to show symptoms, I would do the merciful thing and have her put down to save her the pain.

Have your blood samples sent to www.biotracking.com so you can see her titer levels as well.

[Oat Bucket Farm]

We test. After having to put down a beloved doe because she was positive and symptomatic to the point where she was in so much pain she barely get up, I will never, ever have untested goats again and I will never gamble with a positive doe. The only thing that made saying goodbye to Lacey bearable was that she gave us a a beautiful doeling. We were there for the birth and pulled her the minute she was clear of her mother. She received a combination of colostrum replacer for cows and colostrum from a negative doe. It is amazing how much she is like her mother already, even though they never met.

IMO, there is no reason not to test. If you make sure the lab uses the ELISA test, you will have very accurate results. Biotracking is very reputable, the test is only 4.00 through them. I guess you have to ask if your goats and their future babies are worth 4.00.

[Pony]

I want a clean herd, therefore, I test.

Period.

As others have said, why would you want to perpetuate such a nasty disease? The goal is to produce the healthiest, most productive animals possible.

CAE kinda throws a monkey wrench into that plan, doesn't it?

Why would you NOT test? It's inexpensive, it lets you know exactly what you're dealing with, and it helps not only your herd, but any other herd to which you sell.

IMO, it's penny wise and pound foolish to not test.

[TheLoveOfGoats]

Instead of going to the vet what is the cheaper way to test for CAE/CL and some of the others??

[Oat Bucket Farm]

Pull the blood yourself and send it to the lab yourself.

[RedSonja]

Why bother paying a vet to do a physical if you aren't going to find out as much as possible about her state of health?

I test, and buy from herds that test. And I now know not to just take their word but ask to see test results after a couple of false positives on goats I didn't ask to see test results on. I want happy, healthy productive livestock.

-Sonja

[Rechellef]

I test for all the reasons others have stated. Any CAE positive doe would not be automatically slaughtered, but I would pull her kids. Herr milk would be separated from the other does in the herd and drunk and used for things like soaps and cheeses. I have stored colostrum from a CAE and Johnes free doe in the freezer should we ever run into the issue.

Any doe who did show symptoms would be put down for her sake.

[emeraldcowgirl]

lol, well I guess I'm back where I started. I was all for testing her and then I ran across a few articles that said not to bother and then I got all confused. Thanks for the reassurance, I will get her tested.

[TheLoveOfGoats]

Originally Posted by Oat Bucket Farm

Pull the blood yourself and send it to the lab yourself.

Well I knew that! lol But where do you send it ?

[RedSonja]

www.biotracking.com

[mygoat]

Biotracking is great for just CAE. If you're concerned with CL, Johne's, Brucella or others, most of us send the samples to Washington State Animal Disease Diagnostics Laboratory, or WADDL.

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts_waddl/

You'll need RED top blood tubes (can get them from PBS supply or maybe off of your vet).

WADDL has a special shipping number with UPS that allows you to get 18.00 overnight shipping.

CL is 9.00, CAE, Johne's, and Brucella are 6.00 each with WADDL. There is also an out-of-state Ascention fee of 10.00.

[LoneStrChic23]

Originally Posted by TheLoveOfGoats

Well I knew that! lol But where do you send it ?

www.biotracking.com & unlike WADDL they give you titer levels too. Test is $4 & you can even buy the blood drawing kits from them as well.....

For pregnancy testing & CAE, I think you can't beat biotracking for CL & such, use WADDL.

My vet drew blood when he came out to deal with a sick goat... I had him send it to biotracking.

This fall I'm going to learn to draw blood myself & test for CAE again when I send in samples for pregnancy..