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  #1  
Old 05/18/11, 02:07 AM
 
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Question Goat eating dog food??!

Wow! I really am loving this forum so I have another question for all you experienced goaters.
My German shepherd dog lives in the pen with the goats and everyone gets along great... maybe too well. My beloved old goat loves the dog food and gobbles it down before Kyza (the dog) gets a taste she just sits next to her watching happily. The dog food often has some of Nadeara's milk (the goat) mixed in it and once I mixed some fat in there but she seemed to like that even more??!! Why? We are drinking her milk so I work hard at keeping her away but sometimes I think Kyza saves her some on purpose. She is the goofiest goat in the world but could she be doing it because she needs more protein? And should I avoid her milk on the times she sneaks some?

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Old 05/18/11, 02:51 AM
 
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I have not idea, but questions like this are why the Goat forum is my favorite place!

That, and baby pictures!

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Old 05/18/11, 04:10 AM
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Dog food is bad for goats, so do your best to keep your goats out of it. However, goats, cows, horses, etc., LOVE dog food. Why?

Look at the ingredients. Right up near the top, you see "Yellow corn meal", "Corn Gluten Meal", "Corn Gluten", "Barley", "Ground wheat meal", etc. Why shouldn't goats love it, it is made of grain!

Now, why is it bad for goats? Because, further down on the list, you will find, "Processed chicken fat", "Poultry by-product meal", "meat by-products". Animal products, especially fats, but any animal product really, is bad for goats. It will coat their stomachs and inhibit them being able to absorb nutrients. If they get too much, they can starve to death while happily munching a ton of high quality hay and devouring pounds of grain.

Now, back to that dog food. It is bad for your dog.

Yes, it is. Even though it says, right on the bag, "100% nutritionally complete". It is a darn lie.

It is 100% nutritionally complete because dogs need X amount of protein, and the dog food contains X amount of protein. No matter that nearly 90% of that protein is locked up in the grains which dogs do not have a long enough digestive tract to properly digest. The dog is only getting a small amount of that protein that is listed.

Dogs also do not have high amounts of amylase, then enzyme which breaks down starches and utilizes the energy in them. Cats are obligate carnivores, and therefore have NO amylase...which makes you wonder why cat foods have all that rice, right?

At any rate, your goat is eating your dog's food, which is bad for it, because you are buying badly made dog food that contains mainly grains, which is bad for your dog.

Consider going to a higher end dog food that is PROPERLY made for dogs. One of them is Innova Evo. Yes, it is expensive, but not THAT much more expensive than Science Diet. And eventually, your dog will eat less of it that regular dog food.

Kinda like goats when you first give them free-choice alfalfa pellets. The first week or so, they scarf it down like they are starving to death (maybe they are), then, after that, they realize that it is not going away and ease up, until finally, they will even turn their noses up at it at times.

The same holds true of GOOD dog food and dogs.

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Old 05/18/11, 04:20 AM
 
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I think all goats love dog food. It seems to be one of their favorite things. Fortunately, the dogs usually learn to tell them "NO" about stealing their food. Hopefully yours will too. Most people get around the issue by simply taking the dogs out of the pen a couple times a day for feed time, then putting them back in after feeding.

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Old 05/18/11, 07:15 AM
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The other issue is that goats/cattle/herbivores are not supposed to eat meat and meat by-products. That is how Mad Cow Disease was transmitted.

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  #6  
Old 05/18/11, 07:53 AM
 
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In the late 80's when farms were being repo'ed left and right we took in a pet goat for a lady whose trailer was being repo'ed. She kept the pygmy goat as a pet in the trailer.

We put him on the farm and that darn thing could get out of a concrete cell! We finally gave up on keeping him in and let him roam the farm. He tood to hangin' with the dogs, even down to sleeping on the porch with them. Anyone who drove up would hear "WOOF WOOF BAA!". It's like he was a dog born in a goat body!

When it came to feed the dog would eat the goat chow and the goat would eat the dog chow. After a while you realize that you can't teach an old goatt new tricks.

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  #7  
Old 05/18/11, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Dog food is bad for goats,
And usually bad for dogs too! If it was what a dog should eat, a goat wouldn't want it.
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  #8  
Old 05/18/11, 09:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southerngurl View Post
If it was what a dog should eat, a goat wouldn't want it.
Now that is true. If it wasn't mainly corn, the goat would turn it down.
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Old 05/18/11, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO View Post
The other issue is that goats/cattle/herbivores are not supposed to eat meat and meat by-products. That is how Mad Cow Disease was transmitted.
In fact it is illegal to feed a ruminant to another ruminant.
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Old 05/18/11, 09:47 AM
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Phoenyx, the goat in my avatar, will bust out of the stall when I'm taking in their grain to run to the barn cats' food dish and scarf down as much of it as she can! She also will get out of the pasture and come to the back door and steal the dog's food. I have to put things up out of her reach but then the dog can't reach his food.

I did know a lamb that thought it was a cat and would eat salmon out of the tin.

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  #11  
Old 05/18/11, 09:58 AM
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It may be a hassle, but I would feed the dog outside of the goat pen.

The risk to the goats is too high to do anything else.

As far as dog food..... I'm a RAW feeder, so I'm not a fan of dog food, but if you must feed kibble brands like Innova Evo or Taste of the Wild (sold at TSC) are best. They are more expensive, but the dog eats less of it as it has less waste & by products. For a lower budget, decent kibble, Diamond Naturals are okay....they are corn free and fair priced.

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  #12  
Old 05/18/11, 02:05 PM
 
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I believe in feeding raw dog food too but its become too much trouble so I give the dog a corn free kibble that has meat as the main 2 ingredients (which probably makes it way worse for the goat) and I usually mix in some of the goats milk to supplement, a few days a week I offer meat or organs from the last animal we butchered (I'm glad the goat doesn't eat that!)
I have been tying Nadeara out to graze behind the pen before I feed Kyza since the other goats leave her food alone but Kyza seems to save her some food so if I forget to put it up before bringing Nadeara back then she runs right for the kibbles and inhales it.
Kyza wont eat outside the pen she only wants to play and explore.

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Old 05/18/11, 03:30 PM
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flarytails, are the first two ingredients meat, or meat meals?

If it just lists a meat, like it says "chicken" or "duck", and you are feeding a dry kibble, then that ingredient belongs MUCH further down on the list. The ingredients are listed by weigh before dehydration. Once you take the water out, meat weighs FAR less than the corn or oats that was third or fourth on the list.

The same holds true for vegetables. Lots of dog and cat foods list "potatoes" up near the top of the list. Think about how much a potato weighs and how much potato FLAKES, that would reconstitute into an equal amount, weigh. If you are calculating ONLY dry weight, AFTER dehydration, those potatoes would belong further down on the list also.

Finding a decent dog and cat food is difficult. It is actually MORE difficult to find a decent cat food, even though cats tolerate grains and veggies far less than dogs. The only meat-based, reasonably priced cat food I have found is 9-lives canned. Yeah, mainly beaks and feet, but at least it is animal origin.

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Old 05/18/11, 03:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliannG View Post
If it just lists a meat, like it says "chicken" or "duck", and you are feeding a dry kibble, then that ingredient belongs MUCH further down on the list. The ingredients are listed by weigh before dehydration. Once you take the water out, meat weighs FAR less than the corn or oats that was third or fourth on the list.
I never thought about that. So would it be better to have be a meal like lamb meal? I'll have to check and see what it says next time I buy it but I already dumped the kibbles into the storage container that I feed her from and threw away the bag. oops

Its so expensive already that I may be able to switch to the suggested brands without any price difference. I'm gona look into it.
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Old 05/18/11, 06:38 PM
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Yes, a meal if ,it has a specific name (like lamb, rather than "meat by products"), has a higher end weight and nutritional value than the cuts.

Realize that unless it states "dried", fruits and veggies follow the same rule.

For comparison, though, you might want to consider just going raw. Science Diet Mature Large Breed is $43 for a 35lb bag at PetCo, and that is one of the WORST dog foods out there. That comes to $1.23 a lb for what is basically corn floor sweepings.

I can often find chicken, hamburger, stew meat, stuff like that, on sale or on manager's special, at a *grocery store* for around that price per pound. Also, check with local butchers and meat packagers...often they will sell you organ meats (which are best for dogs and cats) and other trimmings for less than a $1 a pound.

A dog that eats a lb of dry kibble will only need to eat 1/3 lb of meat to receive FAR better nutrition.

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Old 05/18/11, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliannG View Post
Yes, a meal if ,it has a specific name (like lamb, rather than "meat by products"), has a higher end weight and nutritional value than the cuts.

Realize that unless it states "dried", fruits and veggies follow the same rule.

For comparison, though, you might want to consider just going raw. Science Diet Mature Large Breed is $43 for a 35lb bag at PetCo, and that is one of the WORST dog foods out there. That comes to $1.23 a lb for what is basically corn floor sweepings.

I can often find chicken, hamburger, stew meat, stuff like that, on sale or on manager's special, at a *grocery store* for around that price per pound. Also, check with local butchers and meat packagers...often they will sell you organ meats (which are best for dogs and cats) and other trimmings for less than a $1 a pound.

A dog that eats a lb of dry kibble will only need to eat 1/3 lb of meat to receive FAR better nutrition.
I buy the 10 lb bags of chicken quarters when I'm feeding raw. They are about $0.70 per pound. I start to get lazy after a while and go back to Flint River Ranch dog food. Then I start to get cheap and go back to the chicken, then I get lazy etc.

I feed my cats Evo canned cat food. I saw a cat die from the end game of all those carbs in cat food- even high quality cat food so I won't feed it anymore except short time for convenience, like for someone to feed while I'm out of town etc.
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Old 05/18/11, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by southerngurl View Post
I feed my cats Evo canned cat food. I saw a cat die from the end game of all those carbs in cat food- even high quality cat food so I won't feed it anymore except short time for convenience, like for someone to feed while I'm out of town etc.
My cats get variety:

SOME Innova Evo, but the stuff is pricey, yanno?
SOME yellow tuna. Funny, but the CHEAP tuna is also the kind that doesn't have the high mercury, so it is safe for cats.
SOME 9-Lives canned. Yeah, it is the "Hamburger Helper" or "Fish Sticks" of the cat food world, but at least it is meat.
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Old 05/19/11, 08:15 AM
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I get my evo from doggiefood.com and it's not bad for what you are getting. I get the large cans by the case. One can feeds all 4 of our cats. If I would get a good grinder I could feed them chicken, I get sick of cutting that stuff up and the mess they make. My dogs also get the occasional road kill deer.

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Last edited by southerngurl; 05/19/11 at 08:17 AM.
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  #19  
Old 05/19/11, 01:51 PM
 
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Did I mention that this goat also gobbles up eggs, shell and all, if the chickens lay them in her reach? She greedily shoves the whole thing in her mouth and chomps it down!
I'm going to try the Innova evo but I am curious to see if she will leave it alone with her strange tastes.

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Old 05/19/11, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by CaliannG View Post
Now, back to that dog food. It is bad for your dog.

Yes, it is. Even though it says, right on the bag, "100% nutritionally complete". It is a darn lie.

It is 100% nutritionally complete because dogs need X amount of protein, and the dog food contains X amount of protein. No matter that nearly 90% of that protein is locked up in the grains which dogs do not have a long enough digestive tract to properly digest. The dog is only getting a small amount of that protein that is listed.

Dogs also do not have high amounts of amylase, then enzyme which breaks down starches and utilizes the energy in them. Cats are obligate carnivores, and therefore have NO amylase...which makes you wonder why cat foods have all that rice, right?

At any rate, your goat is eating your dog's food, which is bad for it, because you are buying badly made dog food that contains mainly grains, which is bad for your dog.

Consider going to a higher end dog food that is PROPERLY made for dogs. One of them is Innova Evo. Yes, it is expensive, but not THAT much more expensive than Science Diet. And eventually, your dog will eat less of it that regular dog food.

Kinda like goats when you first give them free-choice alfalfa pellets. The first week or so, they scarf it down like they are starving to death (maybe they are), then, after that, they realize that it is not going away and ease up, until finally, they will even turn their noses up at it at times.

The same holds true of GOOD dog food and dogs.

I agree with calli...I use Avoderm....for my LGD's...and for further info try this website...I never knew I didnt know about dog food till I went here......it explains a lot!!

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/
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