Seems we have a little problem here

victory · #1 05/15/11, 01:42 AM

Well, here's how it went...
We found a Nigerian Doe for sale back in January and my daughter really wanted her. So we saved up money, and bought her, she was possibly bred...

We sent off blood to biotracking for pg test, not bred, she's open...this was the 2nd breeding by the breeder, no she has never been bred before this.
So, no problem, we get her good on vaccines an copper and worming, and get the buck here in Feb, see her get bred, wait allotted amount of time per bio tracking, send off blood...uh still open!!

SOOOOO got another buck here, gave her a shot of lute, she came into season, saw her get bred...buck stayed with her for six weeks...waited then sent off blood....yea, she's still open...
So now what...
I got ahold of the kid we got her from and understandably he is asking questions, thinking it's the buck we bred her to, then he thought shes low on minerasl so I should give her 3 bose shots in three days and then breed her...uh, huh???

So here I am with my broken hearted daughter who saved up her hard earned money for this doe, and I am not sure how much of an honorable person this kid is gonna be with us..

He purchased the doe from a fairly large farm here...

I know of another fairly large farm I have dealt with often who will replace a goat that is barren...

Anyone ever had this happen??
any suggestions??

Thanks guys!!

Alice In TX/MO · #2 05/15/11, 07:24 AM

Yes, I had a doe who wouldn't conceive. She no longer lives here.

I'd request your money back or a replacement.

victory · #3 05/15/11, 01:24 PM

That's what I was hoping he would offer, but he seems to be avoiding it all together.
Is there any guidelines from AGDA about this?
I looked on the ADGA web site and couldn't find anything..

Alice In TX/MO · #4 05/15/11, 02:08 PM

Just be direct and request that he do what's right.

victory · #5 05/15/11, 02:49 PM

Yep, diddit...he is him hawing around though..
We'll wait and see what his response to my last email is.

Thanks Alice..

Linsay2231 · #6 05/15/11, 03:09 PM

Maybe I am the odd one out here...but maybe I am just missing something too...

You said that the breeder said she was POSSIBLY bred. Did you have a deal with him or ever discuss getting your money back or getting a replacement if she wasn't bred and wouldn't take in the future? If not, I don't see how it is his responsibility.

Granted, I only have 2 goats, but if I ever sold one and then she didn't take to be bred after her new owners got her and they called me asking for their money back or a replacement I would tell them sorry but no.

I am not trying to be rude at all, I just don't see how this is the sellers fault or where his responsibility to replace or refund the money for the doe comes from.

Alice In TX/MO · #7 05/15/11, 04:23 PM

Most responsible goat sellers will replace or refund for a barren doe.

She is more than just "open." She's not getting pregnant after repeated opportunities.

Goat Servant · #8 05/15/11, 05:08 PM

We had a couple of does with the same sire. After a few yrs of not settling we butchered one & sold the other. Buyer was fully infromed of her barren history. She had been exposed to 3 different bucks. He brought her back for service still no preg.
That doe was also butchered. She had no ovaries!!
You have gone well above & beyond the call of duty to get this doe ripe for action.
Most breeders I know offer another service at no charge if she didnt take the first time.
In your case that breeder should make it right. Though he/she possibly unaware of her condition at the time of sale.

Sorry about your daughter's heartbreak.

victory · #9 05/15/11, 05:47 PM

I am a small time Nigerian Dwarf Breeder, I currently have four Nigerians, I know if this were my goat I had sold I would replace her, or try to get the purchase price back. As was mentioned it is what responsible breeders should do. Although the breeder ends up at a loss, the goat is a dairy goat,being sold for the purpose of breeding and milking. Although there was no written contract there is still honor involved. This is what I told the young man, and after he got very upset, he agreed to replace the doe. I am very grateful as I know I was at his mercy, really my 14 year old daughter was at his mercy. Seriously, she saved her money up to purchase a Nigerian she could call her own, so really the right thing was to replace her, which thankfully he agreed....

It has been a good lesson for us. I failed to mention when we picked the doe up in February, my daughter instantly had a feeling she was barren..smart kid eh??

Alice In TX/MO · #10 05/15/11, 06:58 PM

Your daughter has innate goat ability. I've been doing some reading about the bond between humans and animals, and the *thousands* of years of involvement between goats and humans has given us brain connections that are amazing. The longer you have goats, the more you will realize it. The goats will 'speak' to you with their body language, expressions, etc. Your daughter is already listening.

cmharris6002 · #11 05/15/11, 07:57 PM

As I understand it, if the reason the doe won't settle is genetic then the former owner is obligated to replace her. If it is a health issue, such as cystic ovaries or a uterine infection then you are responsible.

victory · #12 05/19/11, 03:53 AM

What a lovely ending to a terrible situation.
We picked up our replacement doe today.
I am so glad it is over!!
Thankfully, it all worked out!!

CaliannG · #13 05/19/11, 04:25 AM

That is great to hear!

I too would replace a barren doe or offer a refund, and I get miffed at folks who won't. When someone buys a doe from me, they are buying a current or future milker. That is what they want her for and that is the unspoken agreement.

If you see an ad "Car for sale, just needs battery", you go, you see the car, you like the car, you buy the car. You go out, buy a battery, put it in and....no go. Engine is seized. You ask for your money back on the car and the seller tells you, "I didn't SAY the car would run if you put a battery in it."

You are going to call him a lying, weaseling so-and-so, and you know that he is being unethical.

Same here. Selling a doe as "possibly" bred implies she CAN be bred. If it turns out she CAN'T be bred, then the seller needs to make reparation.

HappyFarmer · #14 05/19/11, 09:56 AM

I'm glad you are getting a replacement doe, but I just want to point out the following based on your OP.

The doe apparently is 2-3 years old, if this is the 2nd attempted breeding, he was up front with you that he was unsuccessful-sounds like you took a chance here. In buying the doe you had to have known there was the potential of a breeding problem just based on this info.

You are breeding out of season, year round breeders don't necessarily breed out of season so far north.....our odds we've found is 1/10th success rate with n A-seasonal beeders..

The doe needs to be ovulating for lute to work, she probably is not . The buck needs to be in rut alsoo. If it was in-season I wouldn't even be typing this. This alone slims your chances of success.

You don't say, was it VERY clear that this doe was for breeding purposes? If not then I can see why he would have sold a non-breedable doe to a youngster for a pet. Just a statement of she MIGHT be pregnant does not mean he's selling a breedable doe. Just that she was exposed.

Just some thoughts, not saying who is right or wrong just that unless there are other details not posted the seller did not have to replace, IMO. I would thank him for doing so.

HF

Alice In TX/MO · #15 05/19/11, 11:36 AM

Good analysis.

DWH Farm · #16 05/19/11, 01:45 PM

I agree with HF. If he was selling a 5 year old doe that has been on his place since birth and has never freshened as "possibly" bred that is one thing.. If he is selling what would have been a FF as "possibly" bred that is another thing altogether. Either way it sounds like it worked out..

victory · #17 05/20/11, 01:34 AM

The doe was turning two this year, so no she was not an older doe..
he also knew we were looking for a milking doe.
I have learned such a good lesson from this.
I am normally a very trusting person and assume most people are
worthy of my trust, but I am going to really kick tires before purchasing another doe, if I ever do.

Oh, just to clarify, they buck was quite in rut as she was bred in April and he actually bred another Nigerian and my Lamancha doe with out help.....she was def in estrus from the lute..

He was only selling her as exposed, so I wasn't shocked when she wasn't bred, but after two more tries, a total of four unsuccessful breedings, I am assuming she is a hermie, would be interesting to do a necropsy on her, but that is not to be.
I am just grateful it all turned out like it did.

LFRJ · #18 05/20/11, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

Your daughter has innate goat ability. I've been doing some reading about the bond between humans and animals, and the *thousands* of years of involvement between goats and humans has given us brain connections that are amazing. The longer you have goats, the more you will realize it. The goats will 'speak' to you with their body language, expressions, etc. Your daughter is already listening.

Boy, there sure are some things I'm trying to telecommunicate to our Dennis-the-menace wether, but I'm afraid HE's not receiving! You know, 'please don't don't burst into milking shed while I'm milking', 'stop chewing the barn', 'that's a button, not a peanut'...stuff like that.