butchering goat with cl abcess?

[desertshi]

A buck of mine came out with an abcess that I suspect to be CL abcess. I was thinking that I would butcher him right now. Is this possible? Has anyone butchered one with an abcess? Is it possible?

Remember, I live in MX and don't need to hear about how bad CL is.... I know! I promise!

[Alice In TX/MO]

I wouldn't eat it.

[mekasmom]

Originally Posted by desertshi

A buck of mine came out with an abcess that I suspect to be CL abcess. I was thinking that I would butcher him right now. Is this possible? Has anyone butchered one with an abcess? Is it possible?

Remember, I live in MX and don't need to hear about how bad CL is.... I know! I promise!

The majority of them go to the chivo dealers and are sold in ethnic markets. They eat them all the time. Cooking kills bacteria. I wouldn't eat it in a chevon tartar, but cooked is a different thing.
I would definitely choose to wear rubber gloves when you butcher it, or if you are squeamish, simply sell it at a meat sale.

[desertshi]

CL doesn't get into the meat...it is on organs only so I don't think that there is any problem with eating the meat...I'm pretty much just wondering if I'm going to be able to skin it with the abcess?? I don't want it to rupture and infect the healthy animals so I would love to butcher him tonight if possible!!

[Cyngbaeld]

Why don't you make a wide incision around it and remove it prior to skinning.

[Alice In TX/MO]

How does the CL bacteria get from one part of the body to another? The blood and lymph system. How do you remove that from an animal during butchering? You can't.

[Creamers]

I'd say almost all meat herds have CL, so if you've eaten goat meat from an unknown source, I'd bet the herd had CL - - - I am not sure how I'd handle it - maybe feed to dogs cooked?

[freedomfrom4]

For her goat meat would be a valuable asset, unlike our society which is more wasteful and thinks everything is disposiable. I agree with cutting out a safe area around the abcess. Please look up if cooking kills the bacteria.
Visiting other places makes me appreciate where I come from when I see how hard others have to live to survive.

Sorry I can't spell tonight.

[desertshi]

Meat is definantly an asset to us. I cannot imagine just dumping an animal I have put sooo much money into to raise for meat.

How would I cut around it? He's already hung and half way skinned and we are really debating how to get that abcess off. If I skin under it will it burst?? It's on the shoulder...would I cut a chunk of meat off around it? Thanks for all the imput my dear HT friends!! All of it is greatly appreciated always!

[HappyFarmer]

"I'd say almost all meat herds have CL, so if you've eaten goat meat from an unknown source, I'd bet the herd had CL"

REALLY? Your opinion is important; broad and degrading as it may be. That's like me saying that almost all dairy herd have CAE, or Johne's.

KY must have a HUGE problem with CL for you to make a statement like that, and since CL does not play favorites the dairy industry must have a huge problem also.

There are many meat goat breeders who keep clean herds, as there are many dairy goat breeders who keep clean herds.

There are also many dairy AND meat goat breeders who do not test, do not cull (kill) and diseases run rampant. These breeders are the ones to watch out for......not meat goat breeders in general.

Bashing meat goat breeders in general is in poor taste, IMO. Each herd is individual, and should not be thrown under the bus in such a generalized statement.

Geesh

[desertshi]

We're done!! We skinned him completely out and when we got near the abcess we were very careful until we got right up to it. You could see some weird looking veins and we cut about a quarter inch into the meat at that point and very successfully removed the abcess without any sort of rupturing. Hopefully my experience will help someone ese down the road!! Thanks for all your input and help on this once again!

[Alice In TX/MO]

I think that we need to avoid a tinkling match on this. Depending on the source, the infection rate is at least 30%.

http://www.goatworld.com/articles/cl/cl.shtml

I'm looking for more statistics, but it's a NASTY disease.

[freedomfrom4]

Ky does have a large population of meat goat breeders and there are many goat breeders that openly admit to having CL. There are many dairy people who do not openly admit they have it, but by looking at thier herd you can see they have had a problem with it. Not all have CL, but if you ate meat from a commercial sourse the odds are great that you have eaten an animal that has been exposed to CL.

[HappyFarmer]

Nasty and one to be avoided & culled out as the OP is doing. Still 30% is not most, nor are those statistics very accurate, but a best guess based on the animals going through slaughter, culls I might add. I've seen CAE quoted at 81% or 31% with a bigger pool, but again that number does NOT show the full picture, only those in the pool.

Freedomfrom4 you worded that very nicely and based it on your observances/findings within your locale (KY).

Sounds like all went well today for the butchering. Glad you were able to utilize some of that meat. A job well done. I've read that the abcess would peel away with the skin.

[motdaugrnds]

I think if I were butchering an animal with known abscesses, I would double check every single piece of meat I put up to make sure there were no new spots/abscesses forming that might wind up in a meat dish.

[Alice In TX/MO]

I was wondering if it was possibly an injection site abscess anyway.

[Creamers]

"I'd say almost all meat herds have CL, so if you've eaten goat meat from an unknown source, I'd bet the herd had CL"

REALLY? Your opinion is important; broad and degrading as it may be. That's like me saying that almost all dairy herd have CAE, or Johne's.

Personally, your posted was far more rude than my own – but thanks for sharing

Most dairy herds I've ran into do have CAE and most meat herds seem to have CL.

The folks on this board aren't the norm - seeming to test and care so much - which is great - it isn't typical by a LONG shot.

ALMOST Every single meat breeder I've dealt with or talked to, as Lori said above, openly admit to not caring about, culling for or testing for CL. I'm glad you disagree and have had a difference experience. . . but It simply isn’t the average experience.


I remember many posts on here from people looking to buy from a clean herd and one such person traveled many, many hours to buy from a HT breeder because no such herd existed in her area, but that isn’t the only such event. I’ve seen it repeated many times. I have a family member that runs a massive herd, and they went across the ENTIRE US to get their goats. . .because of this. Our stand in vet when your regular vet isn’t around said he gave up trying to find tested, clean herds and got out of Boers. A vet!

Again, glad you haven’t had the same experience has everyone else. I personally will no buy from a dairy breeder who runs meat goats for this reason.

Now, most dairy herds I’ve dealt with DO have or have had CAE. I would say 85% of all animals I’ve had tested before buying ended up positive and not purchased by me, of course. I recall Vicki on dairygoatinfo saying how almost every single newbie who buys without testing and then tests ends up with a CAE goat.

Desertshi, I’m sorry it had to be done, but I’m glad it is over and it went as well as could be expected.

[Heritagefarm]

There is no way to know if the CL was isolated to that specific area or not. Just make sure that you cook that meat very well done, you really don't want to take any more chances than you need to. CL is capable of moving through individual cells.

[desertshi]

Originally Posted by HappyFarmer

Sounds like all went well today for the butchering. Glad you were able to utilize some of that meat. A job well done. I've read that the abcess would peel away with the skin.

Yes it went great and thank you! The abcess did pretty much just peel away. We were extra, extra careful though and that is why I decided to cut a fraction of meat off as well.

Originally Posted by motdaugrnds

I think if I were butchering an animal with known abscesses, I would double check every single piece of meat I put up to make sure there were no new spots/abscesses forming that might wind up in a meat dish.

I now know that the abcess is in the skin! Not in the meat itself. I checked all the organs as well and he was otherwise very healthy and had no other abcesses.

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

I was wondering if it was possibly an injection site abscess anyway.

While I am not 100% positive it was a CL abcess since we don't have testing facilities down here, I don't think it was an injection site abcess since I don't inject at the shoulder. It was a pretty good placement for a cl abcess.

Originally Posted by Creamers

Desertshi, I’m sorry it had to be done, but I’m glad it is over and it went as well as could be expected.

It's alright....we knew he was destined for the freezer anyways. He just took the trip a little sooner

[okiemom]

if you are open to other ideas check out treating the absesses with formilin and the vaccine for cl. There is a way to get cl out of the heard once it is in.