Thoughts on Alfalfa?

[QoTL]

I'd like to hear the pros and cons from you guys.


I don't normally feed it, and my goats do fine. But had wanted to work on upping milk production this year. Once again, ran into such things as: causes abortion, causes milk ketosis, lowering calcium is better than raising it (so nix the alfalfa). Found this info on reliable websites and books on goat medicine.

Has anyone run into issues using it? How much, how often, do you feed? Does everyone get it, or only certain goats (pregnant, lactating, wether, buck)?



Thanks.

[jwal10]

Only new mothers after a couple weeks or a mother to be that has condition problems. Introduce slowly and watch how much total. Makes a big difference what else is being fed. I only feed grass and clover hay and make up the protein with grains....James

[Goat Servant]

Everyone here except bucks & wethers get free choice usually 3rd cut. Boys get regular hay.
They need the calcuim. Especially when pregnant. The problems occur when doe starts depleting her own reserves.

[southerngurl]

causes abortion, causes milk ketosis, lowering calcium is better than raising it

This is all false I don't care who said it. I've been feeding alfalfa for years now. I have never hand a case of milk fever and have only had one abortion from a young doe being hit by an older doe. I have heard from more than one person going by the silliness that says you need to take away the alfalfa at the end of pregnancy to somehow free up the calcium stores in the bones and they had milk fever when they hadn't before.

[Alice In TX/MO]

OK, I'm glad someone else brought it up. I think my goats had TOO MUCH alfalfa the last month or so in Texas. We are having some edema and engorgement and other issues that I've been seeking some answers about. <--bad grammar

I'm going to cut back on the alfalfa hay, and replace it with grass hay, but keep feeding some alfalfa pellets. I think feeding BOTH was over doing it.

If they have NO alfalfa and NO other source of calcium, then you are likely to have hypocalcemia, or milk fever. That is low blood calcium in late pregnancy or early lactation.

[southerngurl]

Now that I have had, udder edema. Had a few of those. Perhaps too much protein from the alfalfa pellets? At least you know they are getting enough LOL

[Alice In TX/MO]

That's what I'm thinking... too much protein. I slacked off on the browse because I have to raid cemeteries and the sides of roads to get it in Texas. I think feeding both pellets and alfalfa hay was toooo much.

The doe that is due any day has less swelling now we are here in Missouri and she gets to browse.

[julieq]

We feed alfalfa (usually third cutting) full time, free choice to our ND's and mini's. And we used it previously with our French Alpines and Nubians before we sold them. No problems at all. Our milk production is wonderful, we don't have health issues with the herd, very few kidding problems, etc. It's not really much more expensive than grass hay here as we live in cow dairy country and they grow lots of it.

We even feed it to our horses without any problems, although we've heard that you shouldn't do that either...

[Lada]

I have never had a problem with the alfalfa either. Everyone here gets it as I don't have the growing kids separated. They do have free choice browse/pasture, and grass hay. Noble Goat 16% on the milkstand. So really, the pellets and the milkstand grain are the only significant sources of protein.

[Oat Bucket Farm]

Everyone gets free choice alfalfa pellets and free choice grass hay here. Even the bucks. We don't have a lot health issues, no kidding issues and good milk production.

[Kye022984]

I had one lady tell me "If you want your does to put milk in the pail, you feed free choice alfalfa pellets and alfalfa. All the time. And a good protein grain on the stand. So, my girls get just that and so far so good. We have pretty good milk production.

I think the only thing that worries me is I hear that Monsanto is currently working on GM alfalfa. That pretty much would stink because we don't have any clover hay here. At least, not that I know of.

[Alice In TX/MO]

It has already been approved. I hate the whole concept of GM food.

[southerngurl]

Yes, that is my one problem with Alfalfa. I will find an alternative for my herd if they don't change it back.

[Kye022984]

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

It has already been approved. I hate the whole concept of GM food.

If this was Facebook, I would hit the "like" button

[LoneStrChic23]

My vet and I had this debate. He said no alfalfa because it would cause milk fever. I free choice alfalfa pellets & grass hay (coastal bermuda). He had SEVEN out of his 13 does with milk fever and lost two does not long after they kidded. I had no losses, no milk fever and have one doe who is nursing a kid 24/7 plus milks at LEAST one gallon per day..... Since my vets situation is typical for him, I'm inclined not to follow his feeding advice.

I do not want my does leaching calcium from their own bones for kidding and milk production.

I try to maintain the calcium to phosporus balance mentioned in the link below & so far I'm very pleased with my girls overall condition & production. Alfalfa pellets, coastal grass hay and good minerals are available free choice....grain is minimal and only to growing kids, milkers and pregnant does.

I found this link VERY informative and highly recomend you read it.....discusses alfalfa feeding, hypocalcemia, ketosis ect. ect But isn't overly long or too technical

http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/index.php?topic=22.0

[Laverne]

And wethers and bucks need a calcium source like alfalfa to prevent urinary calculi, which a grass hay diet can cause because of it's phosphorus content. Phosphorus needs balanced with calcium.

[steff bugielski]

I have had dairy goats for 15 years now. I never fed alfalfa till folks on here started talking about it. I was hoping to up my milk production.
I added alfalfa pellets to their diet. Yes they did give me more milk but in those two years I had the only 4 cases of milk fever ever! I lost 3 does to it.
I stopped the alfalfa and changed hay and feed to up the protein. My girls are now giving most over 6lbs a milking and these are grade goats.

If fed properly all year long a goat will stock up on calcium from everything she eats. When she needs it she will use it. That is how her system works. If you want to feed alfalfa feed only after she has kidded and is in production. Add slowly as not to interfere with her own calcium release. You want the extra calcium and protein for milk production not during pregnancy.

[southerngurl]

Milk fever CAN also be caused by too little phosphorus in relation to calcium. In those rare cases where alfalfa causes a problem, it is possible low phosphorus in the diet was exacerbated by the increase in calcium. Another thought is copper deficiency. A lack of copper will also keep the body from utilizing calcium and cause milk fever. Alfalfa is high is molybdenum which can be a copper antagonist. SO if you have low copper/high molybdenum already, the alfalfa may contribute to a problem. In that case, copper boluses may be what is needed.

Milk fever is usually about an imbalance between phosphorus and calcium. Most often, this is too much phosphorus and too little calcium. Doesn't have to be though. Too little phosphorus will also keep the doe from having enough calcium. Dietary calcium isn't going to keep the doe from using her calcium, I just don't buy that for a second. Calcium in the blood is calcium in the blood, why would it matter where it came from? When it gets too low from cells pulling it out of the blood to utilize it, the body sends out calcium from it's stores. If the body couldn't do this efficiently, our does would all die of heart attacks.

Yes, the doe stores calcium all year- if she has it available. In your forage, you may have enough. Like in my case, we have a lot of clover. So my does wouldn't be prone to a problem with low calcium. But someone who doesn't have all that clover might. But a doe has a constant stream of calcium leaving her body when in milk, then a pull on calcium to grow out a baby, followed by a pull of calcium to fill and udder and have contractions at the same time. So if she hasn't been putting back a good store all year (which alfalfa or another legume is a good source of- it's not something you only feed before they kid, but all the time) she may have nothing to pull from and go into milk fever.

[Heritagefarm]

Originally Posted by QoTL

Once again, ran into such things as: causes abortion, causes milk ketosis, lowering calcium is better than raising it (so nix the alfalfa).

Hm, and urinary calculi also...
These things are actually caused by too much phosphorous in relation to the calcium. (urinary calculi is) Ketosis is caused by an imbalance of ketones and poor nutrition, which would be the opposite of what alfalfa does. Wikipedia [Ketosis]- "acetyl-CoA in the liver is used to produce ketone bodies instead, leading to a state of ketosis." Abortion has various causes.

[Heritagefarm]

Originally Posted by Laverne

And wethers and bucks need a calcium source like alfalfa to prevent urinary calculi, which a grass hay diet can cause because of it's phosphorus content. Phosphorus needs balanced with calcium.

No, that is a bad thing in my experience. I know several people who excessively feed their (mature) bucks alfalfa and grain, and they get urinary calculi frequently.