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05/04/11, 12:04 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 273
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Possibly Polled???
The flashy little doeling I posted over the weekend, I cannot find what would appear to be horn buds. Her hair on top of her head doesn't have the typical swirl, so I am wondering what is the possibility of two horned goats throwing a polled kid? Or do I have to give it time for them to appear. I was reading over another thread where a poster said they wouldn't go over a week without disbudding, but I am not seeing what I would need to to disbud. Advice please. Will snap pictures if needed.
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05/04/11, 12:25 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: 1 hour south of STL, MO
Posts: 109
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If it looks like flat head no swirl. That is polled. I had couple doelings like that. I was soo happy about it cuz I didnt want to disbud. LOL.
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05/04/11, 01:37 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 2,174
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Two truly horned parents do not throw Polled offspring. Polled is dominant. You need one, to get one. Some Polled goats end up disbudded, so if either parent was disbudded and was actually polled, then an offspring can be polled because the parent is actually Polled.
Now, horns can take quite a bit of time to erupt in some breeds and moreso in females than males. I have not disbudded some doelings until a month because there were no signs of horn buds for close to three weeks before.
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05/04/11, 02:50 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: 1 hour south of STL, MO
Posts: 109
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Wait a min. I had two goats that are horned and she gave me polled babies couple of times. It is something do to with gene pool that my doe may have polled in her gene from somewhere.
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05/04/11, 03:37 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,486
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I had twin does out of my polled girl....both had no swirls... One doe started forming lil points under the skin around 5 days old, the other felt like she has squished marbles under the skin, not the typical points all my horned kids had..
Since I had never disbudded and was nervous over the whole thing and didn't want to redo them later due to scurs, I burned both of them  The eariler you disbud, the easier I've now learned. Both girls have smooth heads, no scurs....but I still think the one doe I kept might have actually been polled like her momma.
But... I KNOW her sister, with no swirls was horned....so I wouldn't trust hair alone..Wait a while and see what happens 
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05/04/11, 03:48 PM
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Pook's Hollow
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,570
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Phoenyx, the Nigerian Dwarf in my avatar, didn't show any signs of hornbuds until she was six weeks old - she had me wondering too!
__________________
"Crivens!" 
Half Caper Farm - breeding Saanens, Boers and Nigerian Dwarfs
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05/04/11, 03:49 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: 1 hour south of STL, MO
Posts: 109
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Yeah It did happened to me once. It was soo weird. But I know i had two adult animals that are horned. I mean the sire bred my doe. They both are horned and the baby came and it was polled. Twice. it happened twice. Its soo weird..
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05/04/11, 05:12 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 2,174
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Holly,
The genetics simply do not play that way normally. One parent has to be polled as polled is a simple dominant trait. Takes one to make one.
Did both parents actually have intact horns? Or was one or both of them disbudded?
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05/04/11, 05:15 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: 1 hour south of STL, MO
Posts: 109
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They both were disbudded.
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05/04/11, 05:16 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: 1 hour south of STL, MO
Posts: 109
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I called the prevouis owner. she said she have goats for over 25 years and she never seen polled goats. So who knows.. The other goat did have scur on him. I remember.
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05/04/11, 05:21 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: West Texas-we had rain!!
Posts: 647
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Is it possible that there is more than 1 gene responsible for horns? In cattle, there are 2:sex linked inheritence and the plain ol autosomal(sp?) inheretence . I have two polled goats-same buck,different does, both of whose parents are horned.Both are twins and the other twin, in each case is horned. They were born on the place and are now one y.o.I can't explain it unless polled is recessive.
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05/04/11, 05:34 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 2,174
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My understanding is that it is a simple dominant. There has to be a polled parent. Polled goats have been mistakenly disbudded in the past numerous times. I have a doe in my herd who was mistakenly disbudded. She is actually polled. This was shown last year when she threw twin polled doelings but an Alpine cross buck who was dehorned. Her sire is our Polled Nubian herdsire. She was dibsudded by the vet assistant who used to burn our kids. He has thrown an easy 50% Polled since I started disbudding, but that first year only one or two were declared polled. Way less than his 50%. So I believe even more were mistakenly disbudded. This done by a guy who has dibsudded hundreds of kids and even declared a couple of the others Polled.
I would suspect that one of the animals were mistakenly disbudded. Polled goats can have knobs that are mistaken for horns and are then disbudded. Especially when people insist on disbudding at less than a week.
I wait for actual horn tips before disbudding.
The next question becomes were there any other potential sires? That were polled, or mistakenly burned polleds?
http://lzrdslomah.com/polled-genetics.php
Last edited by dosthouhavemilk; 05/04/11 at 05:36 PM.
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05/04/11, 05:49 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: 1 hour south of STL, MO
Posts: 109
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It is weird because it was a different buck to one of my doe that gave me two babies that have polled in different time but the rest of babies from her never was polled. Weird. I will never understand about polled. Sorry. But sure it was nice to have one! LOL.
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05/05/11, 12:37 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 273
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Well, upon further inspection today, I feel what appear to be buds this afternoon. I am just going to keep an eye on her to see how she turns out. She will be my first disbudding if she isn't!
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06/10/11, 06:06 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: western NY
Posts: 1,507
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Curious as to what would happen if you disbud a polled goat? Is there any difference? Bleeding? Does it hurt the kid more?
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06/10/11, 06:55 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 2,174
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I don't recall anything out of the ordinary with Jasmine. Of course, we were doing around 15 kids and castrating the bucklings at the same time so it went fairly quickly.
Not sure why they might bleed more. The iron still cauterizes everything. There aren't the buds to remove though.
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06/10/11, 08:28 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,624
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First time I got kids, twin doelings, I waited and waited for those horn buds. Finally disbudded at about 3 weeks, as I recall. For the one that was actually horned, that was waaay too late, and she grew up horned. I thought we just did a better job, or got lucky, on the other. She had kids a few times before I realized she was polled, when I recognized the trait in one of her kids.
Kids inherit one horned gene or one polled gene from each parent. The polled is dominant, as stated above, so that if she inherits the polled gene from either parent, she is polled. You may have a polled goat, and like me, just not know it, if she was disbudded, anyway, as a kid.
Since a polled goat will likely have one polled gene and one horned gene, roughly half her offspring, over her lifetime, will be polled, if bred to a horned buck. Two horned animals will not produce a polled, since neither has the polled gene. Maybe a fluke of nature?
The polled trait is recognized in newborns by straight hair, instead of swirls, where the horns would be.
Last edited by mary,tx; 06/10/11 at 08:31 PM.
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