How important is it to buy only registered goats?

knuckledragger · #1 04/26/11, 01:57 PM

Okay, what is the advantage of buying a registered over a non registered goat? Our primary goal in having goats is to be more self sufficient, but we still may sell some of the goats we raise. We are looking to have primarily dairy goats (although i like the dual purpose aspects of kinders and nubians). A man I go to church with says that he takes his to goat sales and that a registered goat brings no more than a non registered goat. But I also know that some people say that having a registered goat is very important.

TennesseeMama23 · #2 04/26/11, 02:10 PM

It just depends on your goal. I don't care at all about registration, I am in it for the milk. Even if I buy registered, I don't file the papers.

Registered goats may bring more if you are selling to people who care, if you take goats to a stockyard, they will not bring more. You can have a mutt goat that will out milk a reg goat all day long. Papers don't always mean quality. Disease free, milk production, and health are my primary concerns.

I have different breeds of goats and love to mix them. I change up buck breeds yearly and try for a variety of ears and colors, though I only will have good milking stock. My best producing milker is a 4 way mix.

I usually sell milkers on Craigslist or to people I know (for around $150-200--which would be more if they were registered), I usually sell kids/bucks/wethers/does I hate at the stock yard.

If you are just getting started, it would be better to buy the best quality (tested) registered goats you can afford. Then as the years go by, as you learn to know what to look for in a goat, then you could make your mind up about registration.

Alice In TX/MO · #3 04/26/11, 02:26 PM

If you shop carefully and know what you are looking for and ask the right questions and have them tested for disease, then you should be able to get good goats without papers.

BUT.... if you want good teats and udders and milking ability, disease free, etc., registered makes that a LITTLE more likely.

You still have to shop and ask the right questions.

Note: ALL goats are dual purpose. You eat the kids of each just the same.

**mygoat** · #4 04/26/11, 02:39 PM

Registered is the way to go for me. It opens a lot more doors than does unregistered animals.

If you're going to sell kids yearly, I'd register your breeding stock. The idea is to appeal to as big of a market as possible. With registered kids, you appeal to more people than if you offer only unregistered kids. You generally can command a bigger price for off the farm prices. All of my kids go with paperwork, and I don't sell kids for less without papers. Some people do, I don't want to because I believe unregistered animals GENERALLY find better homes than unregistered - and also, the papers do NOT dictate the quality of the animal. I price them by quality, health, and by general going prices in the area, not whether or not they have papers.

Realize with livestock, you will almost always get a much, much, much lower price at sale barns than with off the farm sales. Usually if you're going to sell breeding stock, you do off the farm sales. It's generally accepted that stockyard sales are for culls, problem animals, or the diseased, so most people don't want to pay a lot for the animals that run through them - with many going for meat. Sale barns are fine for moving extra male dairy kids, unproductive or cull animals you don't expect to make a return on, but you'll loose some of your income with selling breeding quality kids or other 'good' animals at sale barns. Most people at sale barns expect to pay 25.00 per dairy kid, and 75.00 to 100.00 for adult does. At least, that's what I've been told for this area.

If you want to offer meat goats at auction, consider using a fullblood boer buck on your purebred dairy does. That way, if you want to increase your dairy herd, you can use a dairy buck. Otherwise, the rest of the does get bred to a boer buck and raise chunky meat kids that will sell better at auction for meat. Also, any doelings you get would be registerable at 50% boer, which could do well for off the farm sales as well.

I agree with TennesseeMama, though. Healthy is the MAIN priority. A healthy, disease tested mutt goat is MUCH more important than a diseased, super-duper, expensive, fancy show goat. Buy from a tested herd (I test for CL, CAE, and Johne's) and practice good biosecurity by isolating any incoming stock for at LEAST 3 months before introduction to the main herd. I usually demand a test before I buy and a test after the 3 month isolation here.

Creamers · #5 04/26/11, 03:14 PM

If you're buying or selling at an auction - which I'd never do - it doesn't matter -

People looking for a quality animal know breeders that care will typically deal with registered animals - they will be, typically, from someone being sure to offer well bred, quality animals - they kid always tell for much more.

I have yet to meet anyone dealing with many unregistered goats that had ever even heard of CAE or CL

CarolynRenee · #6 04/26/11, 06:06 PM

Our Saanen matriarch is a Registered Saanen as well as the Nigerian Dwarf buck we use for breeding. Or shall I say, "was"......the paperwork was never transfered to my name when I bought them and it wasn't worth it to me to keep paying the association fees.

But they, and their offspring, have been kept on our farm up until this year. We ate the males and had been keeping the females. I sold my first doe (she was 1/4 Saanen, 3/4 Nigerian) just a few weeks ago and I intend on selling the F1 Mini-Saanen doelings this year. Papers don't seem to make much of a difference here, although I would suggest getting blood work done on your herd if you were to sell.

Unfortunately there are many people willing to sell, and buy (not always because of ignorance) sub-par goats around here.

I suppose a lot of it depends on the market you're in. The "richer" neighborhoods will probably pay more for a registered goat.

Cannon_Farms · #7 04/26/11, 07:08 PM

it cost the same to feed an unregistered goat as it does a registered and folks feel better about buying the animal at value if it has some history.
For instance, I have one doeling I never applied for papers on, shes ok I just dont like her, freshend with a nice udder I cant sell her for nothing, her half sister (same dam) with papers I have several folks coming this weekend and shes priced at $400. First doeling has a more proven sire with one reserve champion, where as my new buck has yet to be shown.

julieq · #8 04/26/11, 08:33 PM

Registered only for us. We put so much money into our goats in order to care for them properly that we need to be able to get the higher prices for the kids. Our typical buyer is looking for breeding or show stock, not for just a pet or milk goat.

Goat Servant · #9 04/26/11, 09:07 PM

Our main goal is to sell for meat. However all our breeding stock is registered.
We do like to show a few times a year. Registered does not always means show quality.
Just took a mess of bucklings & doelings to the sale barn as the phone didnt ring all weekend prior to Easter.
Got 80-105 pr head.

eta; with the exception of one % doeling with a pair of teats too close everyone was exceptional, just too many to keep.

RangerBrad · #10 04/26/11, 10:10 PM

Ask yourself this question, if you were looking at 2 goats, liked them both, all things were equal except one was registered and one was not, which would you chose?

It's true that a registered animal won't eat a bite more than a none registered and in most cases the cheapest thing about keeping an animal is the animal it's self. The simple fact that a goat was registered means that some one thought enough of their animals to spend a little extra time, effort and money on them which is evidence that they probably also ensured their care, health, feeding etc...

If your desire is to start with healthy stock with a resonable expectation of meeting your desired traits with a nominal price diffrence in the long run my question would be, why wouldn't you deal with registered stock? Brad

LaManchaPaul · #11 04/26/11, 10:48 PM

The primary advantage of buying registered animals is in prices that the offspring can bring. You will have kids to sell. IF you have great milkers - AND registered kids - you can more quickly pay for the great milkers' upkeep by selling off their papered kids at higher prices.

Non-papered kids have to be explained, while papered kids maintain integrity in the bloodline because the owners took the time, energy and expenses to register them.

Take a little time to understand the ADGA codes and you’ll appreciate the ‘papers’ more by recognizing the lineage of your prospective new animal. You can predict how the offspring will perform or add traits to your herd. When you spend money to buy, raise and use the animal in a productive capacity, then having that information in a formal manner (papers) is comforting.

THERE is also some level of satisfaction in having your farm name on YOUR animals. Smile.

Backfourty,MI. · #12 04/27/11, 09:29 AM

I'm sorry & I know that some of you are not aiming your comments at me personally, must just be me today but none of my goats are registered. I have up to date in over 6 years never had a problem selling any kids & no I'm not getting 300.00 or 400.00 a kid but that's OK too.
BUT We do take very good care of our animals, & in most cases spend as much on our goats care, feed, vaccinations, etc. as the rest of you folks.

Some of you are making it sound like if your goats aren't registered or you don't care enough to buy registered or register your stock that your not taking good care of them & that is just not TRUE!

To Knuckledragger, I'm not telling you to buy unregistered goats, I think everyone should do what's best for them & their animals & it also depends on your plans for them. I do think it is most important to buy clean & healthy goats though!

Heritagefarm · #13 04/27/11, 09:36 AM

Well, if it is papered, there is proof of it's progeny. Ultimately, though, registration is more profitable since it appeals to more people. If you've got a goat without papers, you can't sell it for more then $150, whereas we are getting about $250 - $350 for registered milkers.

Cannon_Farms · #14 04/27/11, 09:41 AM

Backfourty, exactly how many wonderful people like yourself do you think there is in this world?
Me personally I like the 3 and 400 dollar kid sales this is just as much as a business for me as it is personal, and even with kid sales im still kinda in the red because of the investment I put into them on purchase. I was really loosing my butt on boers even with papers and nice goats.

No matter as stated before you have to be careful regardless.

Go have another cup of coffee

CustomDesign · #15 04/27/11, 11:24 AM

None of ours are registered, some we would have been able to register and chose not to. We concentrate on health and quality milk production for families, and are always well pleased every year that we find homes for the babies with people who want to start producing their own milk supply. I keep prices low enough that the new owners benefit as well as ourselves. I guess its where the priorities lie, but it makes me feel good inside when I know others are interested in providing the milk for their families. Nothing wrong with folks registering and making more $$, but each one has to decide what's best for them.

saanengirl · #16 04/27/11, 12:08 PM

Registration is not just about money (although it can help), it is primarily about record keeping. When you register a goat, you have a record of the breeding for many generations, which can help you choose what goat to breed it to in the future, and potentially help you avoid problems that are known to be in particular lines. The performance records of goats that have been on DHI test or appraised are there for you to look at so you can evaluate the quality of the bloodlines you are getting, particularly if you are buying kids and cannot see udders. Even if the doe doesn't freshen with the udder that her lines tell you she should have, she is likely to pass on at least some of those good characteristics of her ancestors to her offspring.

If you are new to goats and are looking for good quality stock, it will be easier to find good milkers with correct conformation that are registered than otherwise. It will also be easier to find registered herds that test for various diseases than unregistered herds that test.

Registration is no guarantee, but it provides a paper trail. Paper trails are important if you don't know the specific lines you are dealing with, particularly if you are unfamiliar with raising goats.

**mygoat** · #17 04/27/11, 12:25 PM

Yes, there are responsible breeders/owners who do not register their goats. I've met a few on this forum, Backfourty included.

HOWEVER, the vast majority of the people with unregistered goats are often ignorant to the care of goats. I'm sorry - it IS a trend I've seen through talking to other owners, chatting at feed mills, looking at sale ads etc.

That is not to say that I haven't found people with registered goats that have no business raising them, too.

Heck, I wouldn't buy from the vast majority of goat farms in the US, most likely... I require disease testing and way too many raisers haven't a clue about CL/CAE/Johne's when I ask.

Number one priority is disease free - registration papers don't guarantee that an animal is healthy, quality, or productive, and that is a point to keep in mind. They are good for sales, performance programs, and recordkeeping.

Minelson · #18 04/27/11, 03:38 PM

My goats are not registered. My life revolves around them and their health and happiness are the most important. Papers on any animals has never been important to me or impressed me. I see too many registered, pure bred animals with terrible health issues.
Also I have seen registered horses and dogs living in horrific conditions, with little to none care given to them

goatkid · #19 04/28/11, 01:30 AM

I prefer registered Purebred/American or recorded grade goats. Sure, they all bring the same amount at an auction. There, most go for meat with the remainder going for pets, weed eaters, family milkers and to feed bum lambs. I prefer not to resort to selling my does and doelings at the sale barn. I work hard to breed the quality if animals I have and don't want my milkers going for only $40 each. Many of the people who buy my goats don't ever transfer their papers, but they do want decent quality, healthy animals. I show my goats, so of course they need to have papers.

Creamers · #20 04/28/11, 01:47 AM

I hate to say it. . .but if someone can't afford a $300 goat. . .they likely will not be in goats long because they are costly creatures if you're breeding quality animals. . .
a few wethers, heck. . . that is a different story. . .

If you're talking pets. . who cares if that have paperwork? I wouldn't. It really doesn't matter. . .at all.

If you're talking breeding - most animals shouldn't be bred that are registered, but typically, unless for meat, almost never without - selling them is difficult and quality homes are too hard to come by. . .I've bred unregistered goats when I started out - I quickly sold them and got out of that. Not worth it.

I cannot afford to keep my herd unless my kids bring me registered prices. . .also, regardless of there being an exception - people who are willing to invest the time and money and know how are typically only going to be able to put that effort in if they are getting registered kid prices . . .so your high quality animals will always be from registered stock, by and large. . .

Do poorly bred animals exist that are registered? Goodness, yes! Are the best exmaples stock of these species basically always registered, though? Yes.