* question

Cannon_Farms · #1 04/19/11, 12:46 PM

Ok, checking out trailriders goat I seen the break down of what all the symbols mean, its kinda something I have been meaning to look up again as I have one question,
If "For Bucks the *B is placed on the front of their name, bucks must have both parents with a * designation in
order for them to receive it at birth."

Why does my buck not have * his parents are

Dam:
Little Tots Estate Sugar Cookie 3*M
DOB: 10/07
blue eyed

Sire: Woodhaven Farms Levi Legend
(Woodhaven Farms Leviathan X Woodhaven Farms Fetching)

Dam: GCH/ PGCH/MCH SM3Pines JurEn's Sugar Glider 2*M
8 x GCH, 4 x RGCH, 3 x Best Udder
(Creek Road Envoy X ARMCH Gay-Mor Berry’s Jurassic 2*D, 1*M)

__________________________________________________ _________
Sire:Caesar’s Villa LV Eric *S

Sire: Caesar’s Villa Felicia’s Levi *S
(ARMCH Caesar’s Villa CBS Stetson ++*S X ARMCH
Invale Felicia *D VG 2003 AGS National Champion and
Best Udder)
Dam: Caesar’s Villa Pons Ebony 7*D
(Caesar’s Villa CBS Poncho +*S X Stonewall’s Golden
Cowgirl 6*D)

saanengirl · #2 04/19/11, 03:11 PM

The sire appears to be neither a *B nor a +B. Both sire and dam must have status. The dam is a 3*M, so she qualifies, but the sire would have to be either a *B or +B. It further appears that the sire is the first generation registered with ADGA, therefore he cannot have a *B, and the only way he could pass on status to a son is if he had a +B. According to ADGA genetics, the sire has no production records on any daughters, so he cannot be a +B. a +B designation is given to a buck that has three daughters out of three different does that have earned their *M designation. A buck can also earn a +B if he has two sons that each have three daughters who have earned their *M designation. If a buck has both, he is a ++B. If both sire and dam had productions status designations, in addition to having offspring that performed well, he is a ++*B.

Cannon_Farms · #3 04/19/11, 03:19 PM

I emailed the guy I bought him from and he hasnt wrote back yet. I know all his stuff is ADGA but he sold that buck, and on my bucks papers the sire is indeed AGS.

I guess even if my buck became registered with AGS that wouldnt do anything for him either. Hes still a nice buck, i feel bad I wont be able to show him in Carrolton this go around.

saanengirl · #4 04/19/11, 03:24 PM

You can show him at Carrolton if you have papers. The Nigerian Dwarf show is dual ADGA/AGS sanctioned.

Cannon_Farms · #5 04/19/11, 03:31 PM

Yea well that takes money that I dont exactly have now, gas being as high as it is, its sadly just not happening this week, unless magically some overtime appears on my check. My buck is ADGA and hopefully soon I can drop AGS all together, I find them very unhelpful and after they misdirected my funds to renew my member ship when the funds where supposed to go to getting transfer records, well I wasnt happy to say the least.
My mentor is showing some in the same class or I would have him show him. I really need show lessons as well, some how I can show halter in horses, stack dogs and win, handle boer goats just fine, but to get the look out of my dairy goats is just something that I need help on to say the least

saanengirl · #6 04/19/11, 03:36 PM

Is Cam your mentor? He definitely knows his stuff and is a good showman. The best way to learn to show though is to do it. Sometimes the shows will have an adult showmanship class (I won adult showmanship in Monroe last year). Adult showmanship is more laid back than youth showmanship, and the judge uses that as an opportunity to teach people how to show. If you can show horses, dogs, and boers, you should be able to learn to show dairy goats just fine. Just remember that dairy goats are to be set square with their heads high. No stretching or spread hind legs. Remember that you walk slowly and elegantly around the ring, holding up the head of your goat. It is a little slower-paced than horses, dogs, or boers.

Cannon_Farms · #7 04/19/11, 03:51 PM

No, Cam isnt happy with my husband right now, therefor isnt speaking to me as much. DH said he would come fix his generator but never could get over there, its his slammed season.
Rusty is my Nigerian mentor though I have not been able to go over as much as our schedules conflict. Hes shown me a few things but I can not get my goats to look like I think they do, case in point check out my site www.cannonfarmsga.com look at my buck Fox. I though i had him set good until I seen the picture so its a matter of having some one that knows more than my DH guide me while Im putting one into position to correct where Im wrong. Nibbler just happend to be trying to get a treat from my hubby, hes a little to stretched out..
The reason I dont have more pics on my site as I cant get ones I like well enough.
My truck had to have several parts last week and my boss didnt put in my vacation pay so I got a 3rd of a check I normally do to boot.
I do plan on being here in Monroe, heck I could walk to that show and hopefully Perry, currently I do not put any expectations on winning but learning for now.

Thank you for answering my questions on this, Im still kinda lost on the *s +bs and so on,but you broke it down in a way that clicked for me.

saanengirl · #8 04/20/11, 10:42 AM

I took a look at Fox, and the only major problem I can see with the way he is set up is that his front legs are too far forward. If I were setting him up, I would set his front legs square beneath his withers and shoulders, and tickle his back to make him level out. It is difficult to set up youngsters and get them to stay straight and square.

Here is a photo of a properly set up mature Saanen buck:

This buck has an improper front leg set, but it is natural to him. His legs are set square according to his conformation. This buck's front legs come from his body more forward than what is ideal (but that didn't make him any less than a great sire). Ideally you want the hindlegs set so that the hocks are directly below the pinbones, and the hind feet directly below the hocks. If the goat has a lot of angle to the rear legs (such as this buck, you may end up with the hind legs slightly behind the pinbones. As long as the leg is verticle from hock to dewclaws, you are ok.

When setting up a doe in milk, the front legs are set in the same way as a buck, and the hind legs are set to frame the udder. Take a look at the following doe pictures:

This doe has her hind feet set slightly forward of straight in order to properly frame her udder. You want the udder divided into thirds with one third in front of the leg, one third under the leg, and one third behind the leg.

Sometimes it is not possible to get the thirds and still have your animal properly set up. The following doe is properly set up, but due to not having enough curvature in the rear udder from a side view, you can only see the fore udder and just a hint of rear udder.

You don't want to spread the legs too far around the udder. You want to frame the udder, it shouldn't just be hanging between the legs. The following doe has a very wide udder, so her legs are spread a little farther apart than you would for most does. Ideally you will have enough room in the escutcheon for the legs to be perpendicular to the ground.

Does this help at all?

dustin biery · #9 04/20/11, 01:06 PM

I know it did me...

LoneStrChic23 · #10 04/20/11, 02:57 PM

Me too!

Though the odds of me getting my bratty girls to stand like that are slim! lol

Slightly off topic, but why is the show attire for goats WHITE? I can't go in my goat pen to do anything without getting dirty it seems and white just seems like such an odd color choice for showing livestock in.

When I did dog shows I always liked showing lighter colored dogs because I could get away with darker clothes...

Cannon_Farms · #11 04/20/11, 08:31 PM

Yes, it is required that you wear white, after all if you have properly cleaned dairy goats you wont get dirty (yea, uh hu) but thats the idea. The goats are cleaned extreamly well for the show, they have very little hair left and are in deep shavings, we even clean the hooves with wet wipes to make sure no berries are hidden in the cracks.

Thank you Saanen girl, I noticed that his legs where too far forward in the picture but when I was looking at him standing he seemed correct. And for the life of me I cant get one single goat of mine to respond to tickeling them and sloap down, I can get Rustys goats to do it but not mine. Its like Im an artist that cant get on paper whats in my vision. Do you have any idea after showing so many other animals with good success how fustrating it is I cant get a stinking buck to do right..

What did you think of Nibblers pose? Too far out?

saanengirl · #12 04/21/11, 10:00 AM

Actually Nibbler looks ok. That is sometimes the best way to show babies. If you look at him, his front legs go straight from his shoulders to the ground, and while his hocks may be slightly behind his pinbones, you can see that there is a straight line from his hocks to his dewclaws and to the ground. I think you would be better served with a different camera angle, but other than him pointing his nose straight up in the air, he looks pretty good.

Your problem with tickling your goats down comes down to experience and training. Rusty shows his goats frequently so they have learned what they are supposed to do. Goats that are not shown or trained regularly will fight you when you do that.

Cannon_Farms · #13 04/21/11, 10:36 AM

we are going to try to get new pics this weekend while we have access to grandma

so papa and I can maybe get some good shots and not be pressed for time.
I know your busy this weekend but Ill post them up and maybe you and others can give opinions as I got to get this down.