How to get weight on my dairy girls ?

[horsepoor21]

A few were a tad underweight before kidding , and the rest were a good weight before kidding . Now my Saanens , Alpine's and Nubian are starting to become skin and bones

They've all kidded within the past month . They have free choice alfalfa/grass hay (I cannot find pure alfalfa hay ) , they are fed sweet feed twice a day , they have goat mineral , and are copper bolused .

What else can I do for them ? The Nubian doe has started to not produce enough for her twins ,and I had to pull one as they were starting to loose weight and not playing with the other kids .

I have a Boer/Nubian and a Nubian/LaMancha that both look awesome , and one has triplets ! So I don't understand what I am doing wrong

They were all dewormed the day after they kidded . And everyone is still kept indoors since it's still so cold here . I want to move them ouside soon , hoping that will make a difference ?

The lady I bought my Alpine's from recently , said I should provide lick tubs with protein and that should help ?

Thankyou so much for your help !

[R.Adams]

What protein percentage is your feed? I know with our Saanens we have to feed a high protein 18% grain which we even give a top dress of roasted soybeans (about a cup each) on top with their milking ration. We also give ours freee choice grass hay and approximately 3 lbs / head of alfalfa pellets 17% protein daily.

Have you wormed them lately? Usually poor condition during cold weather means cold weather worms. We worm with ivermectin with a flukacide 50 days before kidding to get rid of cold weather worms. The cold weather worms are really bad on eating condition. Your in the cold north still so those would be the kind of worms I would guess you would have this time of year.

Lick tubs don't work well with goats as their tongues are non abrasive unlike a cows. They have to lick ALOT to get anything. We used them before when we had boers but they really didn't care to much for them and dirtied in them alot.

I would get away from the sweet feed and go with a higher protein. If you can't find a lactation type pellet then look toward a good quality high protein horse grain.

Ray

[saanengirl]

I agree that you probably need more protein than a basic sweet feed, but I wouldn't go to 18%. I would feed a 16% ration at the rate of 1 lb per 3 lbs of milk produced with a minimum of 1 lb. Well, that is for does in good flesh. Since yours are underweight, I would find a pelleted feed that has at least 20% fiber in it, and feed it free-choice. You might consider feeding a high quality horse feed for a while since they usually contain more fat. A horse growth ration usually has 14% protein and 6% fat which would probably be sufficient for dairy does. Another option would be to get rice bran (20% fat) and use it to top-dress a dairy goat ration.

Your does need more calories.

[Tallabred]

BOSS(Sunflower seeds) They have a lot of oil in them - expensive but keeps them looking great. Stop the sweet feed - to much sugar.

[CaliannG]

Sweet Feed = bad. You want high protein.

My milking Minis are currently producing over a 1/2 gallon each as FFs (They are grade Mini-Nubians). They are getting FAT.

I currently feed:

1. All-they-can-eat browse. I have 10 acres of good browse and 6 goats, so the pasture and woods is done *instead of* free fed hay.
2. Free fed alfalfa pellets.
3. 3x a day, all they can eat 18% lactation pellet for five minutes. I don't bother measuring it out anymore. I just fill the milk-stand feeder and however much they can stuff in their faces in the time it takes me to wash udders, dry, milk them out, wash udders, dry, lotion, is theirs. This is generally 4-5 minutes of munch time each.

MOST of the time I top dress with either BOSS, rice bran or soybean meal, depending upon how they are looking. Since I know they don't have a bad parasite load, and they are staring to get round, they don't get a top dressing.

They get free fed LOOSE minerals and baking soda, as well as weekly mineral gel, quarterly copper bolus, and twice yearly BoSe shot.

I have, somehow, gotten VERY "well conditioned" milkers on this program.

[horsepoor21]

I forgot to mention that I do give them BOSS every day .

Thankyou so much for your help , we've always done the sweet feed with no problems before but I will see what else I can get when I go to town . I think my choices will be Purina horse type bagged stuff , and then the Dum ... haha can't remember the name ,know it starts with a D , anyhow it's bagged goat feed . I can also get alfalfa pellets , I just haven't tried that in a long time as they wouldn't touch them before .
So which would be best ? All of them mixed together ? LOL

[horsepoor21]

Caliann > We have 40 acres for them . Unfortunetly , it's all under snow yet ! LOL I can't wait to let them outside again !

[CaliannG]

Amy, if you are limited in choices, they make 16% show horse feed. It should do well enough. Ask for "lactation" or "dairy" feed first, though. It will be sold as a dairy cattle feed.

If what your feed store carries is Purina, I think Purina makes "Dairy Parlor" which is what you would want. I am not positive of this, since I am lucky enough to have a Co-op and therefore can run screaming at the idea of buying Purina products, but many people in many areas of the country, are not so fortunate.

(Dear Lord, please bless our local Co-op that provides us with local, custom-mixed feeds. Amen.)

I think at afternoon milking, if Brie turns her nose up at her treat, I'll have to burst out, "Now listen here, missy! You are being ungrateful! There are goats all over the country who don't GET custom-mixed, 18% lactation pellet and nutritionally formulated, with REAL local apples, grain nuggets! There are goats STARVING to death in Africa, so you had better finish your plate...uhh, I mean feed bucket!"

[horsepoor21]

LOL CaliannG ! That actually sounds really good ! Our coops only sell wheat and peas here . We hope to make a looooong trip to North Dakota to have a custom load made but that will have to wait until our pickup is fixed again . We had that for last winter and we loved it !

I will definitely look for the dairy ration !! I'm always scared to buy something that doesn't show a goat on the front of it , I'm scared I'll end up poisening them or something ! But it seems alot of times the stuff with the goat on the front is not what's best for them , go figure !

Can I hope for any of them to put on weight while still nursing ? Or will this just maintain them until they are no longer lactating ?

[Alice In TX/MO]

Yes, Purina has a Dairy Parlor 16% goat feed.

It's what I'm feeding here in Texas. I feed Kent dairy goat lactation pellets in Missouri.

[CaliannG]

You CAN cause them to gain weight while still lactating, but they need the high-protein/high fat ration.

Can you get soybean meal or roasted soybeans there? Top dressing on a feeding schedule of 2-3x per day might do well for you.

Adding alfalfa pellets to their diet, free fed, also might help, along with the alfalfa/grass hay. I do the pellets as well as the all-you-can-eat browse buffet down here. You might think of your hay like browse and offer pellets as well.

You might consider adding an extra feeding. Goats do better with extra feedings than with just increasing the amounts in current feedings. More feedings of the same amounts is better than current or fewer feedings of more amounts.

Add one thing at a time until you start to see gain. Such as, add the free-fed pellets, then wait a week, then start switching to higher protein feed, and wait a week, then start top-dressing with soybean, and wait a week.

When you start seeing weight gain, you know you have found a balance and you can monitor.

[Laverne]

Like Caliann and many others recommend, free choice alfalfa pellets are a the mainstay and will put weight on and make sure the calcium they need for production is available. Alfalfa is the main feed and can provide all of the protein needed. A alfalfa mix hay may not be providing the protein and calcium they need. Sugary feed will acidify the rumen. Also with low body weight and cold temperatures they may not be able to eat enough to keep warm and produce milk also, if the feed isn't top notch. Even then, it may come to a point where keeping body temperature and production will be overwhelming in a dairy doe who doesn't have the body mass like a Boer, who has more mass to retain heat with. I keep my does milk production steady in winter by putting coats on them during cold snaps.
To put weight on or keep it, and production up, many just feed dry COB in the winter and plain oats in warmer weather. Corn creates heat and energy needed for warmth and production. This is important for those who live in the north. Then free choice alfalfa pellets.

[CaliannG]

Yes, Laverne is right on that....that is why I suggested adding the alfalfa pellets first.

Take each of the suggestions in turn, pellets first, until you see improvement.

[LoneStrChic23]

Definately go free choice on alfalfa pellets. I feed the Standlee brand from TSC in the purple bag.

I also feed Purina Dairy Parlor 16% mixed with whole oats and BOSS and free choice grass hay (no browse here right now)

I've been able to put weight on my skinny doe who was pregnant with triplets, and she's continued to put on weight even though I'm milking 1+ gallon per day from her, PLUS she's nursing a kid 24/7.

I also dewormed her on the day she kidded with Quest, then repeated in 10 days and she's been doing great.

Ditching the heavy sweet feed and going to free choice alfalfa pellets should help a lot!

[Cannon_Farms]

have you had your hay tested? Have you had fecals done on your goats, minimum two out of the herd? those are very basic things that can bring a program down. Just because its green alfalfa doesnt mean its high protein and other goodies, and burmuda can test higher than some lower end improperly grown alfalfa grass mix.
Buy a goat rancher newspaper and youll get the idea of how to put together a feed program without spending all your money.

Nutrina empower has been the only thing that can put weight on my Saanen, but yours being as north as you are may just need more cracked corn for energy, though not as ideal in most programs you need something that can provide heat.

Boss is sky high right now, try a rice bran, beet pulp is up too right now.
I have finally been able to get ADM feeds that are non medicated, my mentor feeds the medicated and his goats got too fat, so since that is a Amish made food maybe you can find it in your area.
I would like to know what your feed label says now as far as the nutrients.

[horsepoor21]

No ,I haven't had our hay tested but I assumed it was alright since our sheep (some of which are lactating) ,horses , non-lactating goats , and cows are all fat and happy !

I do not have the bag for the sweet feed , it's already at the dump . I poured it all into a plastic container because my turkeys get into it ! LOL

I also haven't had a fecal done recently since everyone's been dewormed on a schedule . But maybe I should get that done !

We've had one of the hardest winters in history , over 110 inches of snow and of course our cold that accompanies it ! It was hard on all animals including wild ones (dead deer and antelope litter the prairie ! My dogs are loving that ....) , I see some tiny bits of green grass coming up , we are all excited !

[horsepoor21]

I just wanted to thank you all so much for taking the time to help me out ! I have made a list of all your suggestions for feed , we will start adding one at a time starting with alfalfa pellets . It is such a comfort to know we'll be able to get them back into good condition even while lactating ! The goats bring such joy to my family's life (not to mention the nutritious milk !!!) and we owe it to them to take better care of them ! Thankyou for helping me with that !

[CaliannG]

Amy, sometime this week, I'll post some pictures of my lactating girls....

As long as you promise not to call them "fat". They are "well conditioned". We wouldn't want to hurt their feelings.

[Cannon_Farms]

most other animals dont have the needs goats will. What kind of feed as i can probably find the tag online.
Its always recommended to get fecals if you dont know what your worming for exactly, how exactly can you expect for it to work? Goats could also have coccidia

[CaliannG]

~ponders~ Would an overload of coccidia be an issue with snow still on the ground? I know that it is always present, just seems to me that it would be hard, at this time of year and in Montana, to have a parasitic or bacterial overload.......