bitter/goaty milk - nutritional help

[mygoat]

Every time I've had dairies, the milk was goaty and bitter. Strong flavored. I've only ever had alpines, but I've had different lines each time. I've had 3 different 'pairs' of dairies throughout the years. Unusually, it's often good tasting when it's REALLY fresh - like within 12 hrs of being milked. The longer it sets in the fridge, the worse it tastes.

My does often freshen with good milk, but currently it's strong tasting, If it comes out of the doe it is drinkable for about 12 hrs generally, but after that the flavor is BAD. There is NO pasture to speak of right now, so they are ONLY getting feed I put in front of them.

They are getting free choice baleage/sweet hay with TONS of leafy alfalfa. Nothing weird in the hay, just alfalfa and a tiny bit of grass. Best hay I've ever fed. In the stand they get 5 parts oats, 2 parts corn, and 1 part BOSS at a rate dependant upon their production. They have access to free choice baking soda and sweetlix meatmaker minerals. I had planned on switching to sweetlix magnamilk next time I run out of minerals now that I know my feed store carries it.

One doe is giving me 4.5-4.8lbs per milking (2 year old FF) and her milk was sweetest the longest after freshening. The other doe I milked last year (2 year old 2nd freshener) and her milk turned bad faster after freshening - maybe less nutritional reserves after milking last year? She's giving 3.6lbs per milking or so. Both of them came back with rather low SSC's after the last DHIR test - 4 and 5, and I think anything under 6 is acceptable.

I milk into a stainless stock pot, strain immediately into glass 1/2 gallon mason jars, and put them in an ice bath immediately. I wash udder before with the fiasco farm udder wash (bleach, dawn dish soap) and dip with the same post milking. The milk sits in the ice bath until most of the ice is gone, then it goes into the fridge. I clean the equipment with dairy soap in a spraybottle, and also spray down the equipment before use every time with a dairy sanitizer.

I read an article someone posted here about cobalt deficiency being a main cause for strong tasting milk. Will B-complex injections cure this? What can I do or add so that I don't need to supplement them with injections? I really don't like the idea of having to give constant injections and having constantly orange milk, lol.

[nehimama]

Wow, it seems to me like you're doing EVERYTHING right. I hope someone with more experience can help you find a solution.

[Oat Bucket Farm]

I agree, sounds like you are doing everything right. I also use the Fiasco Farm udder wash. We keep it in a spray bottle and pray the udders down with it until the udders are dripping wet, then wipe down with clean bleached towels.

We milk, into ss milk pails, bring in and filter into 1/2 gallon glass jars. Those go into the freezer for an hour and then into the fridge. The milk is always sweet and clean tasting. Between the baby goats and us, we haven't had milk stored beyond two days but it doesn't seem to matter if its 12 hours old or 24 hours old, it is still wonderfully delicious.

Maybe Alpine milk in general is too strong tasting for you? Maybe try LaMancha,Nubian,or Nigerian Dwarf milk and see if there is a difference for you. Not sure what baleage/sweet hay is and how it differs from grass hay. Maybe that is the issue?

Someone posted that they found a cobalt block(pretty sure that is what they said) at TSC and then pounded it until it is was basically powder and gave it to their goats. I wish I could remember the post or even the thread it was in. It wasn't very long ago.

[grandmajo]

I've seen the thing on the cobalt blocks too. I would question leaving them out all the time, even after you pounded them into powder. The ones that I saw were predominately salt, so in my mind the goats would just hog on that and not eat their other minerals?

That being said, I had a Alpine/Togg cross once that did pretty much what mygoat is describing. I was feeding pretty much that same way at that tuime too. Milk test was normal, no mastitis. And the nubian that I was milking at that time had good milk, even if it was in the fridge for over a week. I never did figure it out, ended up selling her to somebody as a companion animal for a horse.

[grandmajo]

Another thought, are you able to get the Cargill Right Now Onyx mineral. I was looking at the ingredients for your sweetlix minerals and they do contain cobalt at 240ppm. But I'm seeing molasses listed at the beginning of the ingredients. And it seems that I read somewhere that molasses can block the absorption of some minerals? The Right Now Onyx doesn't list any molasses. Also the Right Now Onyx has 2 forms of copper in it, where the Sweetlix only has copper sulfate.

[suzyhomemaker09]

I see you say you are feeding baleage...
To me in our area baleage is almost like silage which is not a preferred feed.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Is baleage a fermented product?

cobalt supplement source:
http://www.jollygerman.com/products/...tsulfate.shtml

[Heritagefarm]

How fresh are they? They might still have colostrum in their milk?
Also, you are mixing bleach and soap together?? That can have undesired results, as they do not mix well together.

[madness]

We've had one Alpine who's milk was horrid the first year until we copper bolused her (because of signs of copper deficiency, not the milk). Second freshening was the same thing. I don't know if the bolusing just so happened to occur at the time when her milk would have sweetened anyway once colustrum was cleared (or something else in the lactation cycle) or if it was a direct result of the copper. She has just freshened again this year and her babies are getting all the milk but we will soon find out if her milk is sweet. If not, I think we are going straight to the copper!

[mygoat]

The does are more than a month fresh, each. One kidded 3/2 (2nd freshener) and the other 3/5 (first freshener). I distinctly remember not liking the 2nd freshener's milk last year. The first freshener's milk was GREAT at first - lasting a week or more in the fridge just fine. I know for a fact because I took some to work in a qt jar to put in my coffee.

Baleage is actually a wrong term for the stuff I get - it's actually a 'sweet hay' which is below 30% moisture and is fermented. It is extremely high in alfalfa and is the best hay I've ever found, IMO. There are a few dangers - can't use it when it gets to warm because it moulds quick - but I've found more mould in regular hay than I have in the many bales of sweet hay I've gotten this year.

I do copper bolus and BoSe the adults 3x per year (every 4 months). I started doing it 3x per year when I read on the saanendoah's site about copper levels decreasing rapidly after 4 months post bolusing.

I'm looking at my tag for meat maker minerals. Cane molasses is the 4th item on the list. However, everwhere I'm looking says molasses is a GOOD source of iron and b vitamins (not sure that includes b-12/cobalt or not).

I tried to get right now onyx somewhere here before. The only place listed as dealer was a TSC who made me jump through hoops for nothing in the end.

[Alice In TX/MO]

I'd suspect the fermented stuff.

[mygoat]

Originally Posted by Heritagefarm

How fresh are they? They might still have colostrum in their milk?
Also, you are mixing bleach and soap together?? That can have undesired results, as they do not mix well together.

From what I understand, that's why you're supposed to mix bleach with 'regular' dawn dish soap. The recipe is on fiasco farm's website. Though to be true, I do rather what fiasco farm website says - a 'splash' of bleach, and a 'squirt' of dawn in an approx. half full half-gallon icecream bucket.

I've tried changing up my routine a bit before. I'm not sure I ever stopped using the teat dip, though... I've stopped using the sanitizer on the utinsils. Maybe I could try using a different udder wash or something. Though Fiasco Farm used it on their many, many goats... and I know some others on the forum use it, too.

[mygoat]

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

I'd suspect the fermented stuff.

I don't think that's it. I didn't feed the fermented hay last year or in years past and still had strong/bitter tasting milk, and I know a good friend of mine with nubians also started feeding it this year and she's had no complaints. It's actually an ideal dairy goat/cow feed. It is only SLIGHTLY fermented - a slight beery taste to the round bale. The fermentation process and moisture means more nutrients, easier to access by the animals. It is in a round bale and the only difference between it and the 3rd cutting high quality alfalfa that I could buy is that it's heavier, more moist - and generally better for them.

[RedSonja]

Originally Posted by mygoat

Maybe I could try using a different udder wash or something. Though Fiasco Farm used it on their many, many goats... and I know some others on the forum use it, too.

That would be the thing I would try first. I was using a commercial "udder wash" from TSC to start with, and after a day or so in the fridge the milk would get goaty tasting. I switched to using the dairy wipes (got them from Hoegger's but since found out Jeffer's has them cheaper) and now there's no more goaty taste even 3 or 4 days later if the milk happens to last that long.

Also, I put my milk in an ice water bath *in* the fridge, instead of leaving it in the bath until the ice melts then putting it in the fridge. Does seem to cool faster, and the ice will stay in the water for a couple of days before it's completely melted that way.

Hope you figure it out and can fix it!

-Sonja

[Alice In TX/MO]

What are you washing your bucket, SS filter, and glass jars with?

I recommend these:
http://www.hoeggergoatsupply.com/xca...&cat=15&page=1

[Lada]

I think your methods sound spot-on. I have used the udder wash you use, sometimes equate antibac. wipes, sometimes just soap and water. Sometimes sanitize the equipment, sometimes don't etc., my point being that my milk tastes the same regardless of what methods I use.

I suspect it's the Alpines.

I didn't used to think there was any difference in milk, we have always had Nubians, but one year I milked an Alpine/Ober mix and her milk was fine too...I think. Now we are milking her daughter. The milk had a definite goaty taste, and I wondered what was going on. One day I kept everyone's milk separate, and hers was the goaty milk. Everything else is exactly the same for her and the Nubians, so it wasn't my methods, it was just her.

She's an amazing milker, and we will keep her to raise calves, but we don't drink her milk unless it's strongly diluted with the Nubian milk.

[Alice In TX/MO]

I'm wondering if it's THOSE Alpines.

Our Alpine has our favorite milk of the herd.

This is so confusing.

[mygoat]

The current two and the previous two I had were all french alpines, all related to some degree, from the same farm. However, the two I had a few years ago were american alpines, completely unrelated. Same issues and my management has NOT changed very much if at all since then. How likely is it that I would have 6 dairy goats - all alpines - but ALL with poor milk taste? The farm I got the french alpines from sells milk so I can't imagine she keeps goats with poor flavor - and mine were sold as bred yearlings so she couldn't have culled them for this reason.

I use the dairy soap, sanitizer, and acid wash from Hoegger. I keep all of them pre-mixed in 32 oz squirt bottles. I spray on the sanitizer before milking, dumping the extra that accumulates from the bottom of the bucket and jars before putting milk in them. I spray down with dairy soap solution and rinse. I use the acid wash in the sprayer about once every 1-2 weeks, whenever I remember to. This is the way I have always done it.

Since I have no other options right now, I'm just going to use dawn dish soap in the udder wash tonight. I'll see if I can't find my FightBac teat spray for post-milking - not sure if I gave it away. If not this weekend I'll be able to get to a TSC for some antimicrobial wipes, teat dips, udder washes etc.

[Alice In TX/MO]

While milking this evening, I was running through the milking processing in my head, trying to figure out the problem.

Another possibility..... your jars. Are you air drying upside down after sanitizing? I had to practically YELL at my hubby to stop drying the milk bucket, jars, etc. with the kitchen towel. Kitchen towels are NOTORIOUSLY germy.

[mygoat]

I hand wash them and then dry them in with the clean dishes in the rack of the dishwasher. So yes, air dried. Same with the lids. The bands are dried open end down in the dish drainer and the actual lids are interspersed in the clean utensils so they're upright and aired while drying. The same idea goes for the milk bucket, lid, strainer etc.