CL Vaccine?

[Blue Run Farm]

Okay, so the vaccine thread got me thinking. I am going to order the mastitis vaccine, but I also saw a CL vaccine, Case-Bac. Have any of you used this vaccine and, if so, do you feel it is effective? We dealt with CL in a goat a few years ago, the seller said she had an infected puncture from getting into the rosebushes. I had never heard of CL and took her at her word. Lesson learned

The vet identified it as CL and we culled her, but not before she gave it to one of my aged pygmy wethers. He was immediately isolated and we eventually put him down due to the CL and age related issues. At this point, if I had another goat show signs of CL, I would cull immediately, but he was a pet so we tried to save him and kept him quarantined and followed strict decontamination procedures. My current goats are clean and I'd like to keep them that way. So if the vaccine works, it's something that would make me feel better. I NEVER want to deal with CL again!

I feel like such an idiot. I have had goats for years, but until 3 years ago we just had the 3 pygmy wethers as pets for ten years. We never had any of these issues with them and I vaccinated them every year with CDT and rabies, as per my vet's instructions. Until I joined this board I had never heard of CAE and now I am suspecting it in one of my does (sending blood this week for testing). She has a hard udder and is only giving me about 3-3 1/2 cups per milking and is a full-size alpine. I don't know what I will do if she comes back positive, she has 2 doelings, 6 weeks old, that she is raising because I had no clue about CAE. If she is positive, I will be devastated, because I really like her and was planning on keeping the doelings. I'm also waiting on the results from her mastitis test, but I am afraid the mastitis is CAE related since it seems to be in both sides of the udder.

It seems that the more I learn, the more I realize I need to learn. Until coming on here I didn't know about copper bolusing and baking soda either. So now I'm trying to correct everything I didn't know I was doing wrong and panicing about the things I didn't know about. Sorry this got long, I'm just trying to do right by my girls and worried that I've been doing it all wrong.

[Alice In TX/MO]

I understand. The learning curve is incredibly painful.

Just keep culling. CAE and CL are culling illnesses.

The CL vaccine isn't proven in goats at ALL.

Cull and purchase carefully. You'll have a clean herd soon.

Huggs,
Alice

[Creamers]

The CL vaccine isn't for goats yet, and if you give it, they will test positive for it forever. .. and you'll never know if they have it or if it is the vaccine. . .there is a goat on in the works.

I know - all the goat diseases make owning them less enjoyable!
I hope your doe is negative!

[CaliannG]

~hugs~ The learning curve can be a steep one, I know.

Others have told you, but I will make it plainer:

The CL vaccine, Case-Bac, is for sheep...and they are having issues with reactions in sheep already. Goats tend to react VERY badly to it. Not only that, but there is NO documentation of vaccinated goats, after being exposed to CL, not acquiring the disease. We just don't know yet if the vaccine is effective on goats.

And that is the really bad part, because we HAVE to wait to see, in trials, if any goats develop lesions after exposure...because a blood test will always come back positive after vaccination. Until we have lifespans without lesions, we cannot be assured that the vaccine is effective.

Patience. I know, not easy. I had to put down a doe for CL last year, (she had been a recent purchase and had been in quarantine, so the rest of my herd didn't get it) and it sucked. I had to wait on the tests for the rest of my herd to see if it got to them, and that sucked.

Diseases suck.

[Otter]

Can I just say wait a sec?
3 1/2 cups per milking is not bad for a goat with 2, 6-weeks old nursing her. Are they skinny that you think they're not getting enough?
As to the hardness of the udder, that could very well be mastitis.It could be edema (being hard from irritation that makes the tissue fill with fluid). It could be a congested udder (often from irritation again)
Lots of people pull their dairy kids because they can be so very hard on the mother's udder.
Please take a deep breath.

Are there any other signs? Any sign of swelling in the joints or weakness in the lungs?
Take another deep breath.
You've done the right thing - you sent blood out for testing so you'll know. Now relax a little. Something wrong doesn't automatically have to be the worst wrong thing it could be.

[Blue Run Farm]

Thanks Otter, I hope you're right! When I say 3 1/2 cups, I am milking her in the am after separating the babies overnight. So that is 12-13 hours worth of milk. The kids seem to be getting plenty, they are growing like weeds so I know they are getting enough. We have treated for mastitis with Today per my vet's instructions, but it didn't help. I am waiting on the results of the antibiotic sensitivity test from LSU, should have them early next week. So hopefully that will help. I am sure she is holding some back for the kids too, as they nurse immediately after milking and I can see the milk on their lips so I know they are getting some.

What makes me worry is that she freshened with a huge lumpy udder and it has been hard and lumpy ever since. At first I figured it was just congestion, but after six weeks it hasn't gone away. I am very careful about disinfecting everything for milking, I bleach all of my equipment daily and clean her well before milking then dip teats at the end of milking. And I re-disinfect my hands immediately before handling her udder. Yet, she is still having mastitis problems in both sides. I think part of the problem is that she has a habit of getting her back feet up against her teats when she lays down and I am cleaning dried poo off of them before milking. I can't make her more sanitary in her habits, unfortunately. So I am worried. I guess after dealing with CL and losing my beloved pet to it a few years ago, I am more paranoid than I used to be. Obviously, there will be no decisions made until we get test results and I am praying that they are negative and she just has an ugly udder/mastitis. An ugly udder I can live with, mastitis is easily treated once we get the results back from LSU. CAE (and CL) I can not live with, so that's why it worries me more.

I keep seeing posts about people getting 1/2 gallon or close to it per milking and I'm not even getting a quart from a standard alpine. This doe has a huge udder, but it never really "deflates" like my other doe's after milking. My other doe hasn't kidded yet, so I am going by memory from when I milked her two years ago. Didn't milk last year because I broke my neck, so this is only my second year of milking at all and I'm a worry wart! Taking a deep breath here and trying to not worry so much

[Blue Run Farm]

Thanks everyone, I feel like such an idiot sometimes, I'm just trying to do right by my girls but this learning as you go sucks! Because I keep finding there are things I am not doing that I should have been doing all along. It sucks that the only "goat vet" in my area killed one of my goats. My horse vet has done much better with the goats, so he is the one I use for them now. He used to raise Saanens, so he should be knowledgeable and he is the one that found the CL on the doe we culled. Yet he didn't tell me to test for CAE, so maybe his knowledge is outdated. It has been years since he actually had goats.

Caliann, thank you! I didn't realize there were such serious reactions in goats. It's not worth it to possibly hurt my girls for a vaccine that isn't even proven to work. So, no CL vaccine for us. Snickers and Sweetie thank you too, they don't want to go through that!

[FunnyRiverFarm]

I have heard of folks using Case-Bac in goats with success--YES, there is a chance for adverse reaction in goats more so than there is in sheep, but it is still a relatively rare occurrance. Goats that are vaccinated will have a positive titer on an antibodies test but it is possible to tell a vaccinated goat from one with the disease by the numbers. There has been a CL vaccine for goats (Glanvac) widely used in Austrailia for years...they seems to be a bit more progressive in goat veterinary care.