Living Fences and Goats

lupusdei · #1 03/27/11, 02:26 PM

Hi,

I have been intrigued by living fences for the past couple months and I was wondering if anyone had any experience with using them to contain goats? I am specifically interested in Osage Orange and Honey Locust fences.

Do you think the goats would just eat right through them or shy away because of the thorns? Would it depend on the size of the animal? I am not talking about a huge pasture either, just enough to keep a few goats at a time.

For reference I am only 23 and in the process of learning skills and planning what I want in a future homestead. I worked on a goat farm last summer where my main chore was to walk the long fence line everyday to check the electrical line as well as many trips weed eating the fence. From that experience I decided I don't ever want that much fence or to have an electrical fence. Plus an electric fence requires electricity to run, and I'm not thrilled about pouring weed killer in the pasture.

Thanks in advance

golden · #2 03/27/11, 02:33 PM

I have been wondering about this myself. Good question!

Melissa

Alice In TX/MO · #3 03/27/11, 02:38 PM

Thorns don't deter them. They eat roses!

Anything with more than four inches of space will be subject to a goat going through it.

CaliannG · #4 03/27/11, 03:22 PM

You would have to make it SUPER dense to keep a goat from going through.

1. Osage Orange is a bad idea. It develops a trunk too easily and becomes a tree, rather than a hedge.

2. Honey Locust is too wispy.

IF you have a few years to get the living fence going BEFORE the goats have a chance at it, then it might work. From your above choices, I am assuming that you live in the South, so:

A. Sea Buckthorn. Goats and birds like the berries (High in Vit. C!) and it makes a nearly impenetrable hedge in just 3 years if you water it and fertilize it. Tolerates salty soils, acid soils and low nutrients.

B. Hawthorne, if you live more northerly and have more alkaline soil.

Remember, anything you grow has to be kept AWAY from the goats for a couple of years so it has a chance to grow.

For a more native hedge, in Texas, we have the native Texas Cedar, and it grows to a goat-proof hedge in 3 years if you train it.

KSALguy · #5 03/27/11, 05:25 PM

goats will eat both osage orange and locust, they will bark them eat thorns and all, getting eather tree to grow dence enough to make any kind of barrier will be hard to do as they are Trees that need Space and branch out, both are good forage though lol and your goats will LOVE you for them but dont plan on them keeping anyone confined

lupusdei · #6 03/27/11, 07:26 PM

Thank you for the great information!

I have read about Hawthorne, but it seems they would have the same issue as the osage orange in that they become a tree. Plus it sounds like they are much more expensive to plant than the osage orange... I will do some more reading about Sea Buckthorn though.

My plan would be to start slow and build the fence hedge up before I add goats. Everyone says to start slow when you first obtain land, so I figured working on a living fence for a few years would give me time to become acquainted with the property and other chores before jumping into the considerably more difficult task of taking care of goats.

The way I see things is that any type of fence requires a great deal of time and resources to build and maintain. However, a living fence would have multiple uses in that it would provide a fence as well as possible forage and wood. In addition it would not require electricity nor weed killer... hopefully.

CaliannG · #7 03/27/11, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lupusdei

My plan would be to start slow and build the fence hedge up before I add goats. Everyone says to start slow when you first obtain land, so I figured working on a living fence for a few years would give me time to become acquainted with the property and other chores before jumping into the considerably more difficult task of taking care of goats.

Everyone SAYS they will start slow. Everyone INTENDS to do it in little pieces at a time. Everyone WANTS to be methodical, planned, and responsible about homesteading and how they acquire their knowledge, etc.

It NEVER happens that way. Especially when it comes to goats. ~smiles warmly~

That being said, there are many things to be said for a living fence. It really depends upon how much land you have.

I have only a few goats now, and LOTS of land. I could have a living fence and be assured that it would keep my goats in. I could be assured of that because I could have NO fence and my goats would still pretty much stay where they are supposed to. This is because the yummy stuff (the wisterias, dogwoods, the garden, etc.) are near the house and the only thing near the road is that lush, green rye grass the county seeds....and what goat would be interested in THAT when there are expensive rose bushes around?

On the other hand, if I tried to use a living fence to fence in, say, a rose garden? That sucker wouldn't last 30 seconds.

That being said, a part of my pond has managed to make itself a living fence of cats claw vine, which I like to call "Organic Barbed Wire" because the stuff is invasive and downright dangerous...and the goats have yet to penetrate it.

motdaugrnds · #8 03/27/11, 07:49 PM

I don't see getting around regular fencing for goats. (We don't worry about the cosmetics of our fencing either as the goats keep it groomed very well.) We tried Lespedeza Shrubs here and, though we mowed them down after 5 yrs so as to create the impenetrable hedge, our goats simply took their time eating through them. (Since they make good browse, we winded up creating a protective fencing...for the shrubs.)

ragingbull · #9 03/27/11, 07:51 PM

My goats eat both,wouldnt last long here....

lupusdei · #10 03/27/11, 08:04 PM

I had to look up the cat's claw vine... never seen it here in SC or when I used to live in PA. It looks down right nasty. If it wasn't so invasive, and could be better controlled it seems like it would be a good trespasser deterrent.

Your right CaliannG another aspect to controlling livestock is making sure they don't want to leave the pen. That being said, the pastures at the farm I was working on hard plenty of goodies for the goats but they still tried to push on the fence if the electric wire was not there.

I have read that living fences work well for horses, cattle, and sheep; but goats are always the tricky ones when it comes to fencing I guess.

lupusdei · #11 03/27/11, 08:18 PM

I'm curious motdaugrnds why did you pick Lespedeza Shrubs for your living fence? Did you intend it to be something they could browse? Did you have a whole fence line of them, and the goats just ate through specific sections?

RiverPines · #12 03/27/11, 08:50 PM

I personally wouldn't bother because goats eat everything and they are so darn good and getting out!
If I did try something like that I would back it up with field fencing.

Alice In TX/MO · #13 03/27/11, 09:35 PM

The next question is "What will your neighbors think of you planting stickery things on the fence line?"

motdaugrnds · #14 03/27/11, 11:42 PM

Lupusdel, we chose "tricolor lespedesa" for its nutrition value and because it was advertised to be an impenetrable hedge if planted closely and pruned appropriately. We "did" want more browse for our small herd of goats; just figured they would browse only "one" side! ROFL WRONG! (I keep telling myself it might have worked as fencing if I had kept the goats off a few years longer; and I'm not convinced I'm wrong about that.)

chamoisee · #15 03/27/11, 11:54 PM

I have read that osage orange works well if planted 4-6" apart. Yes, 4-6 inches. I do not recommend hawthorne, because the thorns ends up embedded in their hooves and are really hard to get out. Not only do they work their way into living tissue, they have some sort of an irritant that causes a lot of issues.

Goats can only fit through so small a spcae, though. What I would do is to plant hawthornes or something similar, fairly densely and staggered, and then something shorter that will coppice, on the goat side all the way to the treeline. Willow coppices nicely and is free to plant, and very easy. IIRC it might also pleach?? If it did that would be even better....

Then I'd use NZ electric fence until that hedge grew up, and as it is growing, cut the willows if they try to go to a single leader, so that they go multi-stemmed instead. You don't have to use weedkiller to keep the electric fence twine from shorting out....just now a path with a lwanmower before you set out the step in posts and run the twine. It only took 2 strands to keep my large herd contained.

The nice thing about a hedge like that is that it will also deter dogs and provide wildlife shelter for birds and nectar for honeybees, etc....as well as being a privacy screen!

chamoisee · #16 03/27/11, 11:56 PM

Forgot to add....my goats did not bother the hawthornes we had! They never barked them, etc...

wintrrwolf · #17 03/28/11, 12:27 PM

My goats have taught me that they will eat what I don't want them to, won't eat what I do, and they have to be where ever I am at...If I am in the pasture then they are fine if I leave the pasture Sugar has to be where I am or as close to and the rest follow her, right through the electric fence

saanengirl · #18 03/28/11, 01:50 PM

My sister is a missionary in the Dominican Republic. There you often see a combination of living and wire fences. They plant living fence posts, and attach barbed wire to them. The trees grow around the wire so eventually you have wire coming out the middle of the trees. The living posts are fairly close together so they keep the wire fairly taut. They seem to keep goats and sheep in pretty well.

Alice In TX/MO · #19 03/28/11, 03:37 PM

By the way, Honey Locust is a horribly invasive plant. You do NOT want that started on your place, and your neighbors don't want you to grow it, either.

dustin biery · #20 03/28/11, 09:15 PM

Any kind of Locust is horribly invasive! You cannot burn those nasty thorns away!