Wwyd?

[KimM]

What if you had a doe that had a gorgeous udder; high and tight, easy to milk. But she had other things not so great, posty, a little cowhocked, front toes out some, not so level topline. Now I would like to try to justify some of this from being extremely copper deficient during her first year of life, before I knew about the need for copper and bolusing. She's always needed much more than the other which in itself could be considered a weakness. But that udder of hers....very nice! I'm thinking of maybe hanging on to a doe kid if she has one (she's due today) before giving her to this great couple I met, as a family milker / pet. Last year her wether kid was very correct in conformation so I know she can produce much nicer that herself. Should I keep a doeling?

[LittleRedHen]

are you in goats for show?
I dont worry about anything beyond having what I need which is milk for my family and good personalities. If it was me- i would be keeping a doeling ANd the mama lol.

[Minelson]

Wait to see what she delivers and then decide

[saanengirl]

The question is: how old is she, and how extreme are the problems? Pictures would help. Posty bothers me in a young doe, doesn't bother me in a doe that is 5+. Slightly cowhocked doesn't bother me as long as she can move well around her udder. Usually a slightly cowhocked Jr. doe will lose the cowhocks as her udder develops and pushes her legs apart. If she is still cowhocked when her udder is full, that is a problem. Toes out in the front, not a big issue unless it is extreme. Corrective trimming can help. What do you mean by "not so level topline"? Dip in the chine: weak back, roach in the loin: not attractive, but not a functional problem. Steep rump: could be related to the postiness and could cause problems down the road. Not level from thurl to thurl? Not attractive, but not a huge issue.

[LFRJ]

May I interrupt this thread to ask for some semantic info here? We're new, so there are some terms that crop up from time to time and I don't know what this means. If you can spare the time, the OP mentioned a few.

"Posty" - (long legged?)
"Cow Hocked" - (bow legged in the back?)
"Dairy Character"

and finally, folks will oft refer to the meat breeds or pygmies as
"cobby" I think it was.

Thanks. If there are more, I'd love to know them too. (my pardon to the OP). And as for a response, there are lots of other redeeming characteristics, temper being one of them. We don't have a top of the line doe - but she sure has been a gem for us along the learning curve - and if her udder is outstanding, well, isn't that one of the major aspects for consideration? If her lineage is strong, and she's mated to a good sire, well - sounds to me like she's got lots more to give you than meets the eye - but then, I'm new.

[KimM]

Working on pics to post.

[coso]

LFRJ, Take a look here it will answer a lot of your questions. http://208.53.2.19/images/adga_forms...a_handbook.pdf

If it was me I would look at what else I had in my herd, and what you can afford to keep and what time it is going to take to keep her. As far as keeping the doeling depends if you have the time energy and money to keep something that may or may not be what you are looking for. I think I would kid her out then evaluate the doeling. IMO

[KimM]

Oh it will absolutey depend on what I see when she kids, just "thinking out loud" today!
Ok here's some pics I took today and she still does have the skin issue as you can see. She's getting supplimented with zinc as well, I'm at a loss for what else to do there. (yes, she has had a skin scrape)

She isn't a pretty doe but if you saw her in person, she has her good points. Although her teats are smaller and point more forward than last year, she is very easy to milk. Maybe I'm just being too hopeful but that's why I'm posting so here ya go - don't be shy, I'm not afraid of constructive critisism.

Shortly after being bred as a yearling -


These were taken today -

[KimM]

Here's her wether kid from last year -
The buck she's bred to this year is more correct than this one's sire and has a better udder background.

[Minelson]

Awww...she has such a soft gentle face I would keep the doeling and the wether

[Sonshine]

Originally Posted by LittleRedHen

are you in goats for show?
I dont worry about anything beyond having what I need which is milk for my family and good personalities. If it was me- i would be keeping a doeling ANd the mama lol.

Yep, me too.

[Pony]

I'd probably keep her and then see what she throws. I'm not into show - definitely more function over form - but if any of the faults you point out would make an animal's life miserable, then I'd try to do what is best for the animal.

[st1055]

The biggest things I see (and I'm NO expert) are the fishtail, raccoon eyes and hair loss on the ears. All are signs of being copper deficient. If I remember correctly it will also affect the coat. But the best advice I will give is if you like her and she works well for you keep her. I feel there are too many people passing up a good goat looking for the perfect goat using breed standards. If you are showing or raising registered breeding stock that is one thing. But if you are just milking and she is working out for you then my thought is she is perfect. And yes, I know I'm really going to catch flak over this.

[Laverne]

I agree with st1055 on the signs of copper deficiency on your doe. Plus I think the not so straight back could be copper deficiency. My buck was almost 6 mos. when I got him and he had a roachy back, but I got him on copper in time, and he has a level back now and throws good toplines.
I just have the one nigerian but really how can those short legs not look somewhat posty?

[mekasmom]

If she were friendly, easy to handle and gave good milk, I would thank God for her. There are more important things in life than looks. Livestock is to be used for milk/meat not worrying about how they look.
I guess that is kind of like show vs work animals. I think of goats as work animals, so I would be thankful for such a wonderful animal. And I would save her doelings in hopes they turned out as wonderfully useful as she is to me. I couldn't care less about their show quality.

[NataliaTwoDoes]

I think she's beautiful, but I am no expert. I would be happy to have the milk producer that you describe, as that is my soul purpose for purchasing my does which are both Nigerian Dwarfs.

[KimM]

The thing is that since I'm raising milking animals, they need to be bred so I am trying to breed more for correct conformation/physical soundnes so that they can live long, healthy, productive lives. Also those kids need to be as sellable as possible preferable to other like-minded people who want a sound dairy animal. She is a real sweet doe but I don't have a lot of room and want to keep the best of what I have, so she is going to a great home after she kids. I have the choice of holding back a doe kid. Hope I explained that ok, it's been a long day and will probably be a long night. Her udder is slightly bigger now.
The wether pictured was from last year, he was sold.
Oh, she's been getting copper regularly plus zinc tabs, and Healthy Coat suppliment. Her udder texture has improved greatly but she's still very flakey (skin that is!). I will have her checked for ringworm though too, just to be sure.

[saanengirl]

I would need to see her clipped to really evaluate her topline, but it doesn't look all that bad. She might be a little roachy in the loin and a little steep in the rump, but a roachy loin isn't a big issue and she is no steeper than the average Nigerian I see at shows. She does not appear at all posty in the rear legs. Where do you get that idea from? She has plenty of width between the hocks. My bet is that she would probably show well. She's on the fat side and that is making her shoulders heavy. It is kind of hard to tell the correctness of the front end assembly in a fat goat. She may be lacking in Dairy Character. Her neck is on the short side, and again, she is fat. I can't tell anything else about her dairy character just from a picture. I would have to get my hands on her. If I were a Nigerian breeder I wouldn't have a problem with keeping that doe. Her faults are small ones. I would breed her to a buck with a level topline, good feet and legs, and lots of dairy character.

[dustin biery]

I agree with Saanengirl.