Buck attacked

[wintrrwolf]

So was trying to finish up a few things in the new pens. I seperated the boys from the girls now ANYWAYS Shaq was being very inquisitive and then he started pushing on me, when I turned around he lowered his head gave me the eye and charged...
I sidestepped and kicked, he turned and came at me again, I picked up the nearest thing which was a 2 inch thick piece of wood and smacked him on the head, didn't even faze him and I hit him so hard the wood broke he just kept coming...so I did the only thing I could do and grabbed on to his long ears at the base and hung on!!! That he did not like at all, when it felt like he wasn't trying to come at me I let him go. He ran away from me and hid in his house...then went over and mounted poor Seeker his wether buddy. He won't come near me now guess 120 pounds hanging from your ears will do that.
Did get a bit worried for a moment...thinking will breed him once to Sugar and Pawnee and bye bye Shaq

[Alice In TX/MO]

Yup, planned breedings, then barbecue. I think you did the right thing with the ears.

[Cannon_Farms]

sometimes play in a bucks eyes can be meanness on in ours, either is unacceptable. When working with other peoples bucks I have a iron pipe I keep in my tote for the simple reason if the need be I can become the bigger buck, Ive had a few I bulldogged down when they charged, I also keep my nine on my side just in case.
I have a very small tolerance for aggressive animals, there are few considerations that are human error but still, there is way too many critters out there to deal with an ugly temper.

I wouldnt worry so much about his kids, hes a buck and its becoming rut season for some breeds and hes got two things on his mind, being the biggest stinkiest buck and getting the ladies. I believe with your actions you may have become the bigger buck for now, but keep on your toes from now on, no man likes being second best.

[nehimama]

Yep. I will not keep a buck around who challenges or charges or BUTTS me. I had a gorgeous li'l guy, and wanted more breedings from him. But he'd challenged me and charged me and finally nailed me in the solar plexus several weeks ago. He has gone bye-bye.

[PyroDon]

We stopped having goats when our last decided to charge our youngest daughter.
It reared up to head but her , her german shepherd who had never bothered the goats or chickens Took it down and killed it before it could complete its drop.
Some would have scolded the dog but the dog was doing exactly what it was trained to do , protect the child . Honestly I was very proud of the dog I saw what was happening but was too far away to have stopped it

[Cannon_Farms]

I dont handle a stallion the same as I would a mare or a gelding, I dont handle a bull the same way Id handle a heifer or a steer, and I dont handle a buck like I would a wether or a doe. An animal is an animal and its worse when they still have testicles. Even the best bucks should always be treated with respect and caution.

[6e]

We used to have a buck that was super mean. Key word here being "used" to have. He would charge and butt every time you came even up to the fence. I found the fastest way to keep him away from me and make him respect my space was hit him with the cattle prod a couple times. From then, till the time we got rid of him, all I had to do was walk in the pen with it and hit the button so he could hear it and he took off running for the hills and stayed far away from me.

[ghmerrill]

With some animals, such as sheep, bottled baby males are notorious for aggression issues-being bottled, they see a person as part of the flock. Since goats tend to become very friendly toward people even if they are not bottled, has anyone had bucks fed both ways, to see if there is a difference in aggression?

[motdaugrnds]

Bucks are "not" normally mean!! They learn this behavior!

We have had 3 "huge" bucks on our place. One was an alpine named "Luke" who would charge straight toward David, stop just short of hitting David, rare up on his hind legs and then come down onto his front feet right in front of David. Then he would "ever so gently" push his head into David's chest. The other 2 are Nubians who were bottle fed from birth. Even when in rut these bucks are gentle as they can be with does and humans alike...just not with each other!

I would guess the buck this OP is talking about was played with when it was a youngster by some human pushing on its forehead. This teaches a goat it is ok to butt humans and, when they get older/heavier, that pushing can look rather aggressive. Then couple that with the human getting angry and striking back and you wind up with a situation the goat defines as harmful; so he responds in kind. This is a guess as to what may be occurring with the OP's buck.

[Goat Servant]

We have a Boer buck who was bottle fed. Didnt get him till he was almost 4. His previous owner taught him respect with a hotshot.
He's a big baby however, loves cheek & butt rubs but I am very cautious especially when during breeding season & take a hotshot with me just in case.
Someone wanted to trade us a young buckling. His owners had a habit of handling his head & horns. A deal breaker.

[wintrrwolf]

I didn't raise this buck I got him back in December. He has been fine up until now, now being I have separated Shaq and Seeker from my 2 doe's Sugar and Pawnee BUT the pens are right next to each other or Shaq screams his head off.
I wasn't angry at first just irritated that he kept pushing at me which I just ignored at first, normally he comes up and I give him scratches and he is fine. This time was different and honestly I was more scared then angry. Shaq is a fine specimen of a full size mature Nubian buck, I stand 5'3 and am 120 pounds I think anyone else might have been a tad worried. And I only hit him when he charged me. I know a buck will be a buck thankfully I have fixed everything so I won't need to go into the boy pen much.
Kinda weird thing though his actions towards me upset my first goat Sugar, she stopped eating and came up to the fence watching us and making funny noises, once it was over she went back to eating.
Normally I am really good at reading animal body language but this time I musta missed something.

[dosthouhavemilk]

Originally Posted by ghmerrill

With some animals, such as sheep, bottled baby males are notorious for aggression issues-being bottled, they see a person as part of the flock. Since goats tend to become very friendly toward people even if they are not bottled, has anyone had bucks fed both ways, to see if there is a difference in aggression?

We've raised them both ways. The three aggressive bucks we have owned were all started by someone else. Our first buck was purchased at weaning. I don't know if he was hand or dam raised. He was a LaMancha/Alpine...with horns. When he hit about two years old, he started challenging dad when dad went down to feed the heifers near his pen. He had already removed all the side mirrors on the place fighting that buck in the mirror. He went away. His daughters were easy going with us. No issues.
The second aggressive buck was purchased at one month old. He and the other kid we purchased had been dam raised until that point. They shared a sire. One was out of a Saanen doe (William) and one was out of a polled Togg/Alpine doe (Charlie-P). We bottle fed them from that point on. They were raised a Jersey bottlefed heifer calf. At two years old, Charlie started being aggressive. I had to start carrying a stick when I worked the herd. Despite him throwing the meatier kids and polled to boot, he was shipped for slaughter. William, on the other hand, has been one of, if not the, best bucks we have ever had. Which is good considering how big he got.
Two people on this board have met him. One ended up buying him at 6 years old since he liked him so much. I still miss William. Not only was he great around humans but he maintained order in the buck pen beautifully. WE only ever had trouble with one buck in the buck pen.....
The buck that was hand raised on CAE Prevention. I drove four hours one way to get him. He was already 8 months old, I believe. Huge, high percentage Boer buck. I should have turned and left without him. He reared up the minute he saw me. That there should have beena good enough sign...but I had driven 4 hours! He was a beautiful buck.
Even William had a hard time with him. In the end, he threw William through a plywood wall and the two ate 35 pounds of feed. Well, since I sold William at 6 years old, he obviously didn't eat enough to get sick. The idiot, however, die and died of Entero the next day. He had only settle two does for me......He is also the most we have spent on a buck. William cost us a whopping $15.
I did retain one of that idiot's sons. I wanted the genetics and this fella was such a sweetie as a kid. He comes about the closest to aggression one sees in my buck herd right now. He puts his head down when he sees me. That is the extent of it.
When he is leased over to the school for breeding though I make it clear that no student is to enter the pen without an adult around. He is territorial with his does.
I am the top buck, though. At some point in their lives every single on of my bucks is taken down and held down until they submit. This is not done until they show some form of aggression towards me. William was taken down maybe two or three times over the years.
Below me is Rudy. Our currently oldest buck. Raised by William but doesn't have quite the presence William had. There is more sparring going on these days among the younger bucks.

You can ruin a buck by bottle feeding it is you allow it to get away with actions you don't want it doing as an older buck.
Some of it is genetics, but a lot is environment.

[oberhaslikid]

Originally Posted by Cannon_Farms

I dont handle a stallion the same as I would a mare or a gelding, I dont handle a bull the same way Id handle a heifer or a steer, and I dont handle a buck like I would a wether or a doe. An animal is an animal and its worse when they still have testicles. Even the best bucks should always be treated with respect and caution.

I also agree and you NEVER turn your back on them.I always keep them in my site .I will back out of a pen to keep from turning my back.

[julieq]

We've had mature nubians, alpines and also ND bucks and haven't ever had one attack us. All the standard size and most of the ND's have been bottle raised. We do have one ND buck right now that gets a little excited and hard to handle (although he doesn't threaten us) and he gets zapped with a small hand held cattle prod to get his attention though. Any animal that attacked our family would most likely end up with a bullet between the eyes.

[motdaugrnds]

Goats have memories that are matched only by the elephant. Once you do anything to it that a goat perceives as mean, that incident will not be forgotten; and down the road, you will get it!

I can turn my back on both my 250 lb Nubian bucks and even "safely" get between them and the doe they are interested in. (I have done it at times ... only when it was necessary.) I would "not" even attempt to get into the same pen (no matter what the size) with 2 bucks in rut! They could "accidentally" hurt me as they battled each other, even though hurting me would never be their intent.

Bucks are definately to be respected; but then so is every animal! I firmly believe the animals we are around often learn who we are and respond accordingly. [I have actually sat out in the pasture under a shade tree and had dogs and goats both come and lay beside me, often with their heads in my lap or over my legs. ROFL The little doe we kept alive this year thinks she has two (2) dams now. One she nurses and the other she cuddles with when she's not hungry ... rofl]

Just saying my belief is that aggression toward humans could well be "learned" not genetic.

[beccachow]

Originally Posted by motdaugrnds

I would guess the buck this OP is talking about was played with when it was a youngster by some human pushing on its forehead. This teaches a goat it is ok to butt humans and, when they get older/heavier, that pushing can look rather aggressive. .

I recall a few yeras back my whether ------ was butting me, very annoying. I came here and was able to directly (in his case) pinpoint it to a pattern of a neighbor boy coming to "play" with him...and shoving him around by his head and horns. I quickly brought it to a stop by a combo of tricks learned here, water and the ear pinch. Granted a whether has got NOTHING on a buck, but ------ was able to push me to the side off my feet. And the natural instinct is to push him right back...by his head. Thank goodness for all of you who quickly told me "NOOOO!" I had a hard time holding my own against him, and he was being playful at the time...I cannot imagine if he had been TRULY trying to hurt me.

[Backfourty,MI.]

Since getting into goats over the years we've purchased 3 different bucks from breeders, 2 were babies dam raised & weaned when we picked them up & 1 was an adult goat, not sure of his age(that was the first goat we bought when we knew nothing about goats or this forum), they were all sweethearts. One of those purchased bucks we still have & 2 that were born here now we still have which they were a;so dam raised. They are all sweethearts, can lay your head right next to theres & love on them.

We have had 1 mean & I litterally mean he was a mean bugger that was born & raised here that was butchered & I used it for dogfood. We have no children here, no close neighbors & never mistreated that goat in anyway! He became so mean I couldn't go in the pen to take care of his wethered buddy, he had to go. to this day I will never know why that buck turned out the way he did. His father was bought from a breeder & was as kind a buck I've ever seen other than to the wether when ever a doe was in heat.

[TJN66]

I know nothing about goats so I like to read and learn. What I am gathering from this thread is you do not ever push or play with a goat by the head? Why is that? I truly want to understand.

[Goat Servant]

Well, they use their heads as a battering ram on each other. When you mess with their heads it's a challenge & they think you want to spar.
As little ones it's just a fun game; like two day old bucklings mounting each other or their sisters. Practice.

[TJN66]

Ahh..now I got it. Thanks for giving me the info. I learn something new all the time here =)