24 hours between kids??

7thundersranch · #1 02/24/11, 11:36 PM

Hi everyone,
I have a doe who gave birth last night to a single, healthy kid (got in the barn by the time the kid was dried off). She's still having labor signs (screeming, hunching her back to an almost vertical angle, VERY uncomfortable, still looks HUGE, etc.), almost 24 hours later. I really am thinking she still has another kid in there and want to stick a couple fingers in there to see what's up. Is that ok for me to do? I'm thinking maybe a stuck kid?? The kid that she delivered last night was the biggest kid I've ever seen!!

Thanks in advance!
-Hannah

KSALguy · #2 02/24/11, 11:50 PM

if she has not passed the after birth and is still haveing contractions she has something bad wrong going on, if there is a kid stuck its dead by now, if you wait too long she will be too, if you dont know how to go in and check seek profesional help asap, if you do know well go in there and see what you can find, your going to have to go in and probably pull out a kid, do you have antibiotics on hand? any birthing medical supplys?

7thundersranch · #3 02/24/11, 11:57 PM

hi,
Sorry, I forgot to say that she has passed a placenta and more afterbirth. Yes, I know how to go in, just wondering if I should. I do have antibiotics and birthing supplies. She is eating and drinking fairly normal, but I'm just concerned by the labor signs.

TennesseeMama23 · #4 02/25/11, 12:35 AM

Have you "bounced" her? (stand behind her, interlace you fingers right in front of her udder and lift her belly up, if you feel something hardish, likely it's another kid--if it's just squishy, it's just goat guts)--Not sure about how that would work 24 hours after the last kid though. I always bounce after each kid is born. I can tell really easily if there are any more kids in there.

7thundersranch · #5 02/25/11, 12:59 AM

I've experienced 9-10 births over the past few years and I've never seen anything like this. This is my 2nd birth of the week, lol! The last one was VERY eventful (you can read the story at my blog: http://7thundersranch.blogspot.com/

I do the same as you...bouncing is very helpful.
Yes, I bounced her right after the kid was born last night and I could definitely feel something that resembled a kid, or at least that's what it felt like! I just now (5 minutes ago) bounced her again and felt the same thing. I have never heard of a doe holding her kid back for over 24 hours after kidding to the first kid. Is that possible or could I just be missing it and she doesn't really have a kid in there?
Thanks,
Hannah

chamoisee · #6 02/25/11, 01:16 AM

I would not wait 24 hours. In general...and people will disagree...if I see only one kid, I check internally just to make sure. If there are two smallish looking twins, I check. After 24 hours, a kid could be dead, and delivering a dead kid is never as easy as a live one. I would rather check than to risk leaving a kid in there.

And I personally have not had accurate, reliable results with the bouncing thing....but that could be just me.

7thundersranch · #7 02/25/11, 01:43 AM

hmmm...yeah, I've heard that about bouncing, but it has worked for me so far. The buckling that she had already was HUGE! She tore in 3 places (Of course, since the buckling was so big!)

Creamers · #8 02/25/11, 02:20 AM

At this point, if there is another kid in there, it is likely too late to save her, and the kid is dead. She could have neurological damage from the kidding, have retained some of the placenta, have a uterine tear or other damage making her push - all of it indicates a need for intervention. The tears externally might indicate there is tearing inside - Make sure she is on an antibiotic like Biomycin and some banamine for pain, at least.

Laverne · #9 02/25/11, 02:22 AM

This thread may help. http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,1148.0.html

chamoisee · #10 02/25/11, 03:23 AM

Um....you really really really need to go out there and have a feel inside....just in case. I don't agree that it is too late for the doe...although if there is a kid in there, dead, she will definitely need antibiotics...but she will probably die if there is and you wait any longer. Please, please, go check.

Shygal · #11 02/25/11, 04:48 AM

Why have you waited so long? =/

Alice In TX/MO · #12 02/25/11, 06:30 AM

My opinion, but after 45 minutes AT THE LONGEST, checking for a stuck kid would have been the correct protocol.

Backfourty,MI. · #13 02/25/11, 09:56 AM

Sure hope your doe pulls through for you, can't give any advice that's better than all you've gotten already. Keeping my fingers crossed for your girl.

7thundersranch · #14 02/25/11, 01:00 PM

Hi everyone!
Sorry about not posting this earlier, but the more dramatic labor signs stopped within 6 of my original post. After that, she's still huge and occasionally appears to contract slightly (no humping up anymore). When the placenta passed, it was flawless (just slid out, all intact).

The reason I waited was because she tore and I didn't want to go in unnecessarily, for her sake. She's just really stressed out.

Bearfootfarm · #15 02/25/11, 01:05 PM

Quote:

My opinion, but after 45 minutes AT THE LONGEST, checking for a stuck kid would have been the correct protocol.

I had a ewe once that went close to 5 hours between lambs, and didn't show signs of still being in labor.

I was there when the first one was born, and spent a lot of time with her, then went back to check several times, and about the 4th time I went out I found another lamb all cleaned up and nursing

Normally they have the second within an hour at most and usually closer to 30 minutes

7thundersranch · #16 02/25/11, 01:08 PM

Also, wanted to note that she is eating and drinking fine and she is NOT pushing! She was just having some other labor signs (listed above) that you don't normally see unless there's another kid is gonna come out. If she was pushing, I would have definitely intervened in a big way! Also want to mention that she a "different" goat, kind of my strange one

Thank you all for your comments!

delphinium · #17 02/25/11, 01:14 PM

Just because she has stopped the dramatic signs does not necessarily mean there isn't a kid stuck in there. She could be experiencing dystocia ... happened to one of my does two years ago. Difficult delivery, first kid transverse, second kid breech, passed the placenta went about normal mothering - next day I saw a leg hanging out from a third kid. Cervix had closed, had to make an emergency trip to the vet for a c-section.

Please don't wait any longer.
Good luck.

yarrow · #18 02/25/11, 01:19 PM

it's possible that she was only carrying the one big buckling.. if she had a hard time delivering him.. she might have internal tears on her cervix.. that will cause discomfort, feeling the need to continue pushing.. ect... If she doesn't get sick, have a horrid/nasty discharge, spike a fever and such.. then it may well just be some cervix damage (that will heal pretty quickly... and the pushing & discomfort will go away)...
you may well have gotten lucky this time.. if you are ever in doubt of a *baby still in there* in the future.. you really need to take a feel.. (clean hand, done gently.. it will you so much.. save you lots of worry and very may well someday save a doe's life (and quite possibly the retained kid's life) if you check as soon as she delivers.. (you don't have very long before that cervix starts closing up.. you won't be able to get your hand in/nor will a kid be able to get out .. if you wait to long)

congrats on the big boy.. hope mom continues to do well

susie, mo ozarks

CaliannG · #19 02/25/11, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm

I had a ewe once that went close to 5 hours between lambs, and didn't show signs of still being in labor.

Sheep are not goats. While there are similarities between the two species, there are also vast differences. What happens with a sheep might well kill a goat, and what is good for a goat may very well kill a sheep. A good example of this is copper.

One goat is not even the same as another goat. If this experience with a ewe had been a doe, it still doesn't make that large of a difference. Just because a person gets lucky and everything is right in the end, doesn't mean they will be so lucky with the next one, or the one after that.

7thunders should have gone in to check no more than an hour after the previous delivery if there were still any signs of labor. 7thunders might have gotten lucky this time, and it was only a damaged cervix.

However, NEXT time, if she does such a hesitation and depends upon luck to save the day, she might very well end up with a doe that died a horrible and torturous death (dying from birthing complications is a horrid way to go), as well as dead kids.

And next time, checking a ewe 4 hours later who still has a lamb inside might end up with a dead ewe and lamb instead of a healthy birth.

We are speaking of the *averages* here....not "this one time, I got REALLY lucky, and it turned out everything was fine even though I didn't go by the book."

7thundersranch · #20 02/25/11, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliannG

7thunders should have gone in to check no more than an hour after the previous delivery if there were still any signs of labor. 7thunders might have gotten lucky this time, and it was only a damaged cervix.

I did go in right after she delivered the first kid and felt just the placenta, which came out intact about 15 minutes later.