C.A.E. Postive goats at Diamond M Whitetail Ranch, Inez, Texas

[Alice In TX/MO]

A friend of mine bought a goat last week at the Diamond M Whitetail Ranch at Inez, Texas. The website claims that the goats are CAE and CL free.

My friend kept it and its kids quarantined, thank goodness. The goat tested positive for CAE.

The lady who sold the goat was hateful over the phone. I'm calling the owners.

This is very bad.

[Oat Bucket Farm]

Oh no, that is so sad. Sending hugs to your friend, CAE can be heart breaking.

[thaiblue12]

I am confused, I goggled it to see their goats and they raise deer so people can come and hunt them on their property?? Can't you do that in the wild in Texas? They want 8k for semen from a buck with a nasty looking rack

Not much attention seemd to be given to the goats on that site, it says they are inspected monthly, but probably just their milking facility.
I am sorry your friend got a CAE doe I hope they take her back and she gets a refund!

[CaliannG]

Thai, people have "game ranches" here. You can hunt on them year round, unlike having to deal with hunting seasons.

They are mostly for trophy hunters...which is why you get a LOT of retired stud bucks there. The deer farms who raise for meat or green antler, when their bucks get old, they send them off to the game ranch where stupid tourists will shoot them (since they aren't afraid of humans, they don't run much). The stupid tourists get a nice rack or stuffed head, and a bunch of nearly inedible sausage.

Tourists are happy, game ranch makes money, deer farm makes money....everyone is pleased with the arrangement except for the buck, who happens to be in the freezer.

The trouble with these sorts of set-ups is that deer carry a LOT of things that is easily transmittable to goats. Since, on a game ranch, new stock is constantly coming in, being hunted, and turned into sausage, it is VERY seldom tested on that end. The game ranch side is completely and utterly terminal....stuff only goes in there to die.

Problem is that things happen...and a break in the fence, open gate, whathaveyou... and suddenly that terminal side is spreading disease to the goat side.

Oops! Now you have infected goats...and you may not even know it.

They had better give out a refund if they sold a goat as disease free and she turned up positive. I'd take that to court if they were balking on it and show them how hateful *I* can be.

[Creamers]

I bought from a large show herd that placed and won at Nationals in 2010 and 2009 and prior to that. . .with Nubians and Saanens . . .
the doe ended up positive - I didn't buy her a friend did, and the kids I bought out of her were positive. . .
they have tried to blame biotracking, but I am sorry. . .no way.
I hate to throw their name out - I just HOPE people ask for results on herds before they buy - DON'T ASSUME -
My whole herd I had prior and my kids born here are all negative, most under 10 on the titer level, many at zero. . .

I am waiting on refund - nothing yet - I still have the doelings - they are year old at present - since they aren't lactating and haven't been bred - thank GOD - and the whole rest of the herd just came up negative. . .
I am WAITING for my money - a friend that will never breed on a farm wants them as companions for a pony - I can trust her to do ONLY that. . .Ugh. A mess.

[Alice In TX/MO]

They sell male deer to other big ranches for between $15,000 and $25,000. These are deer that have been selectively bred to produce trophy racks in a shorter period of time than normal.... about three years.

The native deer on the Gulf Coast of Texas are small. These are hugemongous.

My friend did keep the doe and kids quarantined. I've spoken to the owner of the deer ranch and she said she'd instruct the caretaker to refund my friend's money. We'll see what happens today.

After the dust settles, I'll be communicating to the owner about the general condition of the goats, which is very poor.

They no longer sell milk to the public, I was told, even though it says that on the website.

I looked at their "milk facility" and my old remodeled chicken house with wood floors is cleaner than where they milk. It was not what I think milking for the public standards should be. She said that the inspector would sometimes sign the papers without looking in the building.

My biggest regret is not saying, "This doesn't look right, let's leave." I was tricked by their website and claims there.

[thaiblue12]

Alice you should not regret it, maybe, just maybe you have saved others from buying CAE positive stock. If they actually listen to what you are saying and test the rest of their goats. You also due to having your friend test them saved her from unknowingly having/keeping/breeding positive does. So while it was not ideal it may save someone else.

As far as the deer, it does not seem very sporting to me to shoot bottle raised deer, nor do those racks look good to me, they look deformed. Like a woman who has gotten too many boob jobs and now sports a size double F Un-Natural!
But I guess they make good money off of it. Too bad they did not use any of it to take better care of the animals providing the milk to the money making deer.

[Wags]

Originally Posted by Creamers

I bought from a large show herd that placed and won at Nationals in 2010 and 2009 and prior to that. . .with Nubians and Saanens . . .
the doe ended up positive - I didn't buy her a friend did, and the kids I bought out of her were positive. . .
they have tried to blame biotracking, but I am sorry. . .no way.
I hate to throw their name out - I just HOPE people ask for results on herds before they buy - DON'T ASSUME -
My whole herd I had prior and my kids born here are all negative, most under 10 on the titer level, many at zero. . .

I am waiting on refund - nothing yet - I still have the doelings - they are year old at present - since they aren't lactating and haven't been bred - thank GOD - and the whole rest of the herd just came up negative. . .
I am WAITING for my money - a friend that will never breed on a farm wants them as companions for a pony - I can trust her to do ONLY that. . .Ugh. A mess.

Send a registered letter with a demand for a full refund within no more than 7 days from the receipt of the letter. If they don't respond then in my opinion it would be time to go very public with the info.

[Shrarvrs88]

ew. Never thought i'd see an ugly rack. well, i have seen one now.

[Ranger]

I'm so sorry for your friend. We just had to let two does go that came in CAE, so I really feel for her.

[grandmajo]

Originally Posted by Creamers

I bought from a large show herd that placed and won at Nationals in 2010 and 2009 and prior to that. . .with Nubians and Saanens . . .
the doe ended up positive - I didn't buy her a friend did, and the kids I bought out of her were positive. . .
they have tried to blame biotracking, but I am sorry. . .no way.
I hate to throw their name out - I just HOPE people ask for results on herds before they buy - DON'T ASSUME -
My whole herd I had prior and my kids born here are all negative, most under 10 on the titer level, many at zero. . .

I am waiting on refund - nothing yet - I still have the doelings - they are year old at present - since they aren't lactating and haven't been bred - thank GOD - and the whole rest of the herd just came up negative. . .
I am WAITING for my money - a friend that will never breed on a farm wants them as companions for a pony - I can trust her to do ONLY that. . .Ugh. A mess.

I know somebody else that this very same thing just happened to. Now I'm wondering if it's the same herd?

[SherrieC]

I was thinking the same thing but I don't think that lady has any saanens..

[grandmajo]

I think your right SherrieC, I missed the saanens in that post!

It's rather ironic, my sister called me a couple of weeks ago and made the comment that her SIL was looking at buying goats from a pygmy herd. I asked her if the herd had been tested for CAE. She said, well the owners show, so I'm sure that they are!

I think that it's a common mis-conception that just because a herd shows at sanctioned shows, that it automatically means that their herds are tested.

[Alice In TX/MO]

The refund and return of the doe and kids is supposed to take place on Monday. We'll see.

[LoneStrChic23]

So sad Hope the refund happens.

I contacted a breeder here in Texas about buying an alpine doe after she freshens.....they have a nice website, show ect..We chatted back and forth for a while and she always promptly responded to my emails. The last email I sent her I inquired about CAE testing and asked if they didn't have a current test on this doe could I put a deposit on her pending clear test results and even offered to pay for the test......Never heard another word from her. Re-sent the same email about a week after asking if the invitation to come out and visit the farm was still valid and still no reply.....So, I guess I got my answer there, won't bother contacting them again if they can chat about a sell, their fabulous stock, show wins & production but will clam up and not respond to health testing inquiries...

The breeder I got my new buck from doesn't show, website isn't anything fancy but they were very upfront on all health info and happily supplied me with current test results, not only on my buck's dam, but also on the rest of the herd....May not have the nice show record the previous breeder I contacted did, but I'd definately be a repeat customer

[SilverFlame819]

That just goes to show, Crystal, that people are willing to buy the best product you can produce, and that, to me, means that an animal can win a million shows, but if it's carrying a disease and passing that disease along to its offspring, it's not worth anything to people who care about quality.

Two thumbs up to everyone on this board who sticks to their guns when it comes to CAE and CL. It's the only way to feel hopeful that one day these issues will be non-issues in well-bred goats.

[CaliannG]

Crystal, was that seller that clammed up after you asked about health located near Austin? I had something similar happen to me from a farm near there .... suddenly after I asked about health issues, ALL of the goats they had for sale were sold and I needn't bother coming out to the farm.

I wished CAE and CL caused infant mortality....because I *gar-aun-tee* that if a disease came around that started striking at young stock, the meat goat ranchers here would be SCREAMING for state-wide testing on ALL herds. If it was something that hit them right in the pocketbooks like that, we'd have some testing regulations in place PRONTO.

But....it doesn't and we don't. ~sighs~ In Texas, dairy herds seem to be affected the worst. Likely because of the high terminal rate among the meat goat herds. In diary herds, an infected goat sticks around a while and has the opportunity to infect everyone....in meat herds, the goat MIGHT be sticking around, and...of course, infected goats are more likely to be culled due to lower productivity or simply not "looking right".

~sighs and shrugs~ The last goat meeting I attended, I had one lady tell me that I was wasting my time and money with testing, and another lady respond to my claim that I was lucky enough to have a disease-free herd right now with, "Well, you won't if you ever decide to buy anything."

You can bet your bottom dollar that I won't be buying anything *from them*.

I, too, had the misfortune to buy a positive doe...CL rather than CAE, but still positive....from what was "supposedly" a vet checked and tested herd. Live and learn. I did NOT get a refund....all the woman did was send me links to websites that said that CL can be treated with formaldehyde and how to do so.

I culled the goat and chalked it up to money lost.

[Creamers]

I know that there can be instances where CL and CAE do pop up and an honest breeder did not know - might not, like me, test for CL because it isn't accurate, might go off of having never seen an abscess or having a closed herd for years -
with CAE - there are instances a goat tests negative and suddenly is positive - I have seen it happen with long standing CAE prevention herds and in a herd that Dam raises. . .
but these were honest breeders that try to test and deal ethically, and they did not cover it up, lie and sell the goats as CAE free once they knew.
The issue exists in those who sell them as CAE free and KNOW they are positive or likely to be or claim to have tested free and haven't. The issue also exists in herds that could care less and make no effort to maintain a clean herd and refuse to even address herd health - i.e. these herds that end contact when you ask.
Lastly, if you buy and test immediately or soon with CAE, at least, and have a positive animal, a reputable breeder will make it RIGHT!
I have a tested herd - all the goats apart from the one's sold to me that were positive - are two years (if old enough to have been tested in Jan 2010) CAE free. Having known ethical breeders with tested negative goats end up with a sudden positive. . .I know it happens, so when I sell - I say I have current CAE negative results you are welcome to, you can retest before you buy, too, and IF you end up with a positive within 6 months of a sale, I will give your money back, but that is all I can do - I cannot promise you that 2 years down the goat will be negative - I have no way to know if a rare but possible instance of it picking it up after leaving has taken place - but I can not assure the life long health of the goat - It isn't financially feasible for me. I make an honest effort, and that is what I expect from other breeders.
With CL - I tell anyone. . .I have not seen CL in my herd, made sure to check herds I bought from for signs of CL - never saw any, never bought from a breeder who owned Boers or auction animals and you're free to test the animal on your dime. . .I do not test
because it doesn't seem accurate enough to do so. . .once that animal leaves, that is it on the CL end. . .it isn't coming back because of CL . . .it is too contagious and could have come from anywhere. . .
Anyway, that is just my perspective. . .lol.

[LoneStrChic23]

CaliannG-

I will have to look up their website again to double check their location......they have mostly Nubians but also have a few Alpines & I was considering purchasing a doe after she freshened. I won't go on a slander spree or mention names or anything, simply because I didn't buy the goat.....But the fact they went from chatty to ignoring me the second I inquired about the testing made me leary.....

Their goats are beautiful, do well at the shows, and may very well be disease free, but unless I get proof, I won't buy....

Creamers- I think offering compensation after a few months for CAE positive results is reasonable, but I agree that you can't put a lifetime health guarantee on livestock.......its just not possible, especially when you can't control how they are cared for our what they are exposed to.

[saanengirl]

I give a 6 month guarantee on CAE because it takes about that long for it to show up on a test. If an animal turns up positive more than 6 months after they purchase her, she didn't get it here!