Is there any way to raise your own feed?

[Sonshine]

I mean totally. Years ago people didn't depend on feed stores or tractor supply to take care of their animals. What did they do? Today we hear all about all the things we have to buy to ensure the health of our animals, how did they do it before they could run down to the stores? Even when I do a search on raising your own feed, they always have other things added to it that has to be bought. Is there a natural way for goats to get the copper they need? That's the sort of things I'm curious about. We're trying to be as self sufficient as possible, that means trying to feed and care for our animals from what we can produce on our land. Any help in finding answers would be appreciated.

[susieM]

Long ago, they ate a lot of their animals during the winter...both to feed themselves and to avoid feeding the animals.

[April]

I think those many years ago when people were more self-sufficient, the animals were bred to be hardier and produce less. When we started selecting for high production, we also selected for higher maintenance requirements as a side effect.

I'm with you on wanting to do it all myself, but I think we'll have to breed "backwards" for those animals that do well on less and go from there.

Just a theory - I have no hard data.

[Wags]

Check out this thread - Grass/forage-fed only for dairy goats?

Yes it is possible, although minerals would be tougher to do. Not sure where I would come up with copper or selenium from naturally.

I am already selecting "backwards" I culled heavily last year and kept only does and their daughters that did well enough on a pasture/alfalfa pellet diet that they could earn their milking stars. I only feed grass hay on the rare days that there is ice or snow. We have mild winters here in the grass seed capital of the world, so I rarely go through more than 7-8 bales a year.

This year I will be planting extra pumpkins, turnips, sunflowers etc to supplement their feed. I already have a deal with one of the x-mas tree lots in town to get all their left over trees every year. Those usually provide some supplemental browse for a few months.

[Sonshine]

Originally Posted by Wags

Check out this thread - Grass/forage-fed only for dairy goats?

Yes it is possible, although minerals would be tougher to do. Not sure where I would come up with copper or selenium from naturally.

I am already selecting "backwards" I culled heavily last year and kept only does and their daughters that did well enough on a pasture/alfalfa pellet diet that they could earn their milking stars. I only feed grass hay on the rare days that there is ice or snow. We have mild winters here in the grass seed capital of the world, so I rarely go through more than 7-8 bales a year.

This year I will be planting extra pumpkins, turnips, sunflowers etc to supplement their feed. I already have a deal with one of the x-mas tree lots in town to get all their left over trees every year. Those usually provide some supplemental browse for a few months.

We have a lot of pine trees. I've also planted some bamboo that I'm hoping to help supplement their feed. Just ordered alfalfa seed, clover seed and timothy hay seed. Would that make a good enough hay mixture for them? I didn't know they ate turnips or pumpkins, will add that to my list of things to plant. Already planned on the sunflowers for both goats and chickens. What about green bean vines or sweet pea vines? Would they make good hay?

[sammyd]

turnips, rutabagas, mangels, fodder beets all are decent sources of some nutrients. There are the roots themselves and the greens as well, but root crops can be a pain to keep weed free and some are fussy about their seedbed prep.
Half an acre of corn or barley or oats wouldn't be bad. Small grains can be fed in the bundle so threshing wouldn't be an issue just scythe and bundle. Corn can be run through a chipper shredder and bagged for silage when still slightly green or you can harvest the ears for grain and shred the stalks for bedding.

When soybeans were introduced they were mostly used for hay, so just about any bean or pea vine would work. Just a process to get them to dry down enough to store, and usually a dirty dusty job.

There have been reports of pines causing abortions we don't feed those to pregnant does.

Goats haven't been bred near as hard or as long as holstein cows for top production and we have several of those on our dairy that is all grazing/hay and just a touch of grain to get them in the parlor. No barn just snow pile windbreaks. You can take modern animals and get them to work in a less input environment.

[Pony]

Get a copy of Gene Logsdon's book on growing grains and grasses. We're also planning to grow root crops for animal feed this year.

Still going to purchase minerals and such, b/c no way would I want to take a chance on that.

[Wags]

I'm feeding mostly fir trees - have been doing it for 3 winters now without any issues. These are trees that have never seen the inside of the house, plus branches that blow down from the Douglas Fir trees in the area.

Here is a really old (2001) thread on the issue from before this forum moved to HT: http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-an...?msg_id=004hJe

[Sonshine]

Originally Posted by sammyd

turnips, rutabagas, mangels, fodder beets all are decent sources of some nutrients. There are the roots themselves and the greens as well, but root crops can be a pain to keep weed free and some are fussy about their seedbed prep.
Half an acre of corn or barley or oats wouldn't be bad. Small grains can be fed in the bundle so threshing wouldn't be an issue just scythe and bundle. Corn can be run through a chipper shredder and bagged for silage when still slightly green or you can harvest the ears for grain and shred the stalks for bedding.

When soybeans were introduced they were mostly used for hay, so just about any bean or pea vine would work. Just a process to get them to dry down enough to store, and usually a dirty dusty job.

There have been reports of pines causing abortions we don't feed those to pregnant does.

Goats haven't been bred near as hard or as long as holstein cows for top production and we have several of those on our dairy that is all grazing/hay and just a touch of grain to get them in the parlor. No barn just snow pile windbreaks. You can take modern animals and get them to work in a less input environment.

I've had some pregnant does before, in my last herd that I had to give up because of surgery, and they ate pine bark and needles, since their pen has several pine trees in it. It didn't seem to hurt them any. Two of my does gave birth twice during that time and a third doe gave birth once, with no complications on any of them

[LoneStrChic23]

A man at the feed store told me to plant bicolor Lespedeza shrubs for goats....he said he did all his fence lines in them and that they are very good forage food.....

Would love to do that, but I can't seem to find seeds/plants

[Sonshine]

While researching good forage foods I read that both kudzu and bamboo are good for goats.

[CaliannG]

My goats LOVE bamboo....which is why each new bamboo plant that goes into the ground gets its very own 6' tall fence and two fence posts. That is the only thing I have found that will keep both the horses and the goats from it.

However, I do not know of anything that will be good for minerals. Years and years and years ago, back when they didn't have feed stores and special mixtures, they didn't raise goats in low copper areas. They raised some other dairy animal...a dairy sheep, dairy horse, dairy camel or dairy yak....maybe even a dairy cow.

In the Americas, before colonization, no one HAD dairy. That is why Norwegian isn't the national language. (ask me about that story if you want to hear it) While it COULD be that that particular piece of cultural and agricultural evolution failed to co-develop here as it did in so many other places, I also have to wonder if it wasn't tried many thousands of years ago and something about the minerals, vitamins, nutrients, or the specific combination thereof just was not conductive to the development of dairy animals.

At any rate, it may be that it is not possible to raise multiple generations of healthy, high production, dairy animals in the New World...and that is why we have to feed our critters such a vast array of specially formulated this, and chelated, mixed that....

Kudzu is wonderful goat fodder, but in many areas, your neighbors won't thank you for planting it. Check your state laws first.

[PaulNKS]

Yes, you can grow your own feed. You are better off growing corn for the grain. Corn has some protein and has then energy an animal needs.

I pasture the goats year round. There is a lot of cedar which is a natural dewormer. My goats almost never need to be dewormed. Right now, I'm using a natural dewormer on some Alpines I bought recently that were wormy.

My pastures are mostly native grasses with some brome and fescue. The goats do fine. They come into the pens at night, and I close it up. I let them out early the next morning for the day. Not only does it eliminate a lot of the feed bill, it also eliminates a lot of health issues arising from the use of dirt and mud pens, which is one of the leading causes of cocci and other bacterial problems that exist in the soil.

I don't feed alfalfa. If I have to feed any hay in the winter it is hay that is baled here that is made up of the same grasses they are accustomed to the rest of the time. I only hay when there is snow cover.

As far as minerals... yes, the old timers did buy mineral from the mercantile or the general store, before there were feed stores. But, it wasn't the same as what we buy today. They typically bought 2 or 3 different types of mineral and mixed their own. Also keep in mind that they weren't as aware of the mineral needs as we are today.

Even with feeding a minimal amount of feed, I still get enough milk for my household needs. The only thing I buy is a tub of protein supplement when they can't get grass and need hay or when they are nursing.

You don't have to break the bank to have well nourished goats.

[Wags]

Sericea lespedeza:
The high tannin content of sericea lespedeza gives it an "anthelmintic-like" effect. Fecal egg counts tend to be lower among small ruminants grazing sericea lespedeza pastures, as adult worms lay fewer eggs and the eggs that are produced have reduced hatching ability. Though it shows great promise for helping to control internal parasites in sheep and goats, sericea lespedeza is classified as a noxious weed in some states.

http://www.sheep101.info/201/pasturemgt.html

And more on Shrub Lepedezas: http://www.riparianbuffers.umd.edu/fact/FS759.html
Apparently it is a big attractant for bees as well. Milk & Honey

More info on creating pasture for goats: http://www.extension.org/pages/Goat_...es_and_Forages

[Wags]

An additional resource:

Browsemaster®

Browsemaster is a new grass seed mixture from Barenbrug for goat pastures. Research has indicated that the productivity of goats is higher in a pasture with a diverse array of forage species rather than a mono-stand. Browsemaster has the optimum combination of browse, forbes and grasses to improve the meat and milk production in goats. Regionally adapted, Browsemaster mixtures are available for the transition zone and southern United States. The primary component of Browsemaster is Barenbrug’s high quality chicory. Browsemaster also contains red clover, alfalfa and forage brassica varieties for protein and forage grass for digestible fiber.

Barenbrug seed headquarters is located not to far from me and I intend to try some of this mix in my pasture this year. (They do have regionally adapted seed mixtures available - so there should be something for whatever part of the USA you are in.)

[Creamers]

a natural way for goats to get the copper they need?

Once thing people do not realize is goats, among other animals, were not native to America - I mean, native people have no domestic livestock beyond dogs, bees and ducks. ..
Expecting animals not native to here to thrive sometimes is in error. . .
goats do not really have roots in areas like we have in most parts of America and
even the native breeds, as they were, have been altered through selective breeding to such a point, being able to raise all your own food and have a lot of success with kidding and milking is going to be very difficult and in many instances, impossible.

[Wags]

Originally Posted by Creamers

Once thing people do not realize is goats, among other animals, were not native to America - I mean, native people have no domestic livestock beyond dogs, bees and ducks. ..
Expecting animals not native to here to thrive sometimes is in error. . .
goats do not really have roots in areas like we have in most parts of America and
even the native breeds, as they were, have been altered through selective breeding to such a point, being able to raise all your own food and have a lot of success with kidding and milking is going to be very difficult and in many instances, impossible.

Like anything worth doing it takes a bit of work to set up correctly, but I have to strongly disagree that it is impossible.

Kelp is an excellent soil additive to boost its selenium content. And Coal fly ash can be used as well.

You can boost copper content through the use of a compound known as copper sulphate. It is also possible to use a copper chelate compound to treat the soil.

[Pony]

Curious about the pine needle statement. I know that Wags feeds Christmas trees (from the lot, not old decorations) to her goats.

Any problems with does aborting b/c of eating evergreens, Wags?

[Wags]

Originally Posted by Pony

Curious about the pine needle statement. I know that Wags feeds Christmas trees (from the lot, not old decorations) to her goats.

Any problems with does aborting b/c of eating evergreens, Wags?

No problems at all Pony.

Here is an old thread from the forerunner of this forum about goats eating pine - http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-an...?msg_id=004hJe

[CaliannG]

Oh, that's the point Wags....that you can't keep an area "natural", grow everything organic-like, and still keep Old World livestock healthy in the New World.

Even on the most lush of pastures, completely irrigated, poly-culture, with various trees, saplings, yadda, yadda, yadda in fertile abundance, if you turned a herd of goats loose, say just some crossbred dairy types....if you did not supplement feeding and add special minerals to their diet, as well as injecting them with minerals and forcing quantities of the same down their throat....then in a couple of years, you are going to have some deficient goats.

There are very few areas in my state, at least, that are not deficient in copper, and fewer that are not deficient in selenium. Even in those areas that do not have deficiencies, there are even fewer areas that don't have an over abundance of some OTHER mineral that interferes with the proper uptake of both copper and selenium.

If you want to do the "natural" thing and not mess with Mother Nature, or you want to work in concert with Mother Nature.....well, Mother Nature did not intend goats to milk a gallon or more a day, and She obviously did not intend for domesticated goats to be on this continent at all, or She would have provided more areas with adequate minerals to meet those goat's needs.

There are not any domesticated sheep in the New World either.

Just saying.