CAE results - WADDL verses Biotracking

Creamers · #1 02/06/11, 07:44 PM

Okay, my herd was negative except for two doelings I bought that were supposed to be raised on CAE prevention and from a tested herd (I did not get paperwork (asked about it - they said they tested, but since they show the dams, they could not be sure what they might pick up, etc. . . would refund me if the kids were positive, etc) because I felt I could believe this breeder - basically because they have a reputation locally to uphold as a fairly large, nationally placing show herd and said they'd replace the kids. . .

The dam showed positive after a friend of mine bought her -I'd already bought the kids - she drew blood herself, sent it to biotracking, got two positives of 89. . .
Took the doe back, got her money back . . .the breeder later told me the doe tested negative from WADDL once he had her back and he resold her. I asked for paperwork since this was our kids dam . . .never got anything that showed she was ever negative. . .

Who knows. . .

I had the kids from that doe but they were too young to test and have just now - they are 10 months old - tested the herd for the second time in the last 12 months. . .

The numbers for these does are in the 60s. Positive - plan and simple. Everyone else was 0 to 12. All goats I either bred here or tested prior to purchase.

The breeder wants the goats back to sell for meat for a full refund. I have a friend who is happy to take them as pets - zero chance of breeding . . .she raises chickens, but she isn't interested in breeding goats.

I told him I would accept $75 less than purchase price and wanted the rest back, no goats returned . . .because the kids at 10 days old, when I bought them, were not worth more than $20 ea as meat animals and he should not profit from my 4 months of milk put into them, feed, meds, cooper, bo-se, etc. . .and get $100 ea at market for them. . .

He refuses to refund more than 1/2 of my money if I want to keep them . . .so whatever. . . I will take that. . .unhappily.

He insists that Biotracking is not dependable, that me drawing my own blood affects it - - - now guys, I know this is HIGHLY unlikely. . . but I try to be fair and wanted to ask . . . he talked about how "cheap" biotracking is, how he uses a "Vet" to draw his blood . . . etc . . .blowing smoke, sounds like to me. . . but

Does anyone agree?

WADDL does recommend having a vet draw and overnighting the blood and leaving the samples out in room temps for an hour. . .

Biotracking doesn't mention the above - I drew it in serum tubes. . .it might have been at room temp 30minutes, might have been an hour then it went in the fridge. . .I mailed it Priority. . .

But honestly. . .is that going to make a difference? Anyone have issues with biotracking and get negative results with WADDL?

Oat Bucket Farm · #2 02/06/11, 10:58 PM

No,it's not going to make a difference. If it was going to make a difference, then why did only those two does (out of a doe that tested positive and they haven't produced any paperwork to say she isn't) show up positive. There are major herds who not only have CAE neg herds, they have the paperwork to back it, they show and they still guarantee the neg status of their does, and they pull their own blood and use Bio-Tracking. The breeder is trying to find an excuse.

Creamers · #3 02/06/11, 11:00 PM

Oh, I know he is. . . It is so sad, too.

He just kept on and made me doubt me pulling it and using biotracking. . .

Isn't it sad that a herd that sells all over and shows like this would do that?

Oat Bucket Farm · #4 02/06/11, 11:33 PM

It is sad, sad for the goats and sad for those that have to through making a decision about what to do with goats they have loved on and made plans for and such.

For future reference, you can test kids. If the test comes back positive you will know if they received CAE pos colostrum and milk, even if it was pasteurized.

Creamers · #5 02/07/11, 01:56 AM

I knew I could - but I've had a lot of people tell me when they've had does they knew were positive. . .and the kids had faint positives. . .the kids ended up negative as they were older - that is the only reason I waited and I wish I had not

pygmybabies · #6 02/07/11, 08:36 AM

my vet said I could do it myself, with a syringe and then put needle in red top tube and put blood in it, even gave me the tubes for free!!

Alice In TX/MO · #7 02/07/11, 09:14 AM

The guy was doing a number on your head.

natty threads · #8 02/07/11, 11:18 AM

Isn't CAE transmitted through bodily fluids?

How is showing going to infect a goat with CAE?

Oat Bucket Farm · #9 02/07/11, 11:22 AM

CAE is primarily transmitted through colostrum and milk with cross infection between adult goats pretty rare and usually associated with blood contact of some kind. Showing is not going to make your goats CAE pos if they are neg. There are other nasties like CL (not sure how easily they can get CL from shows)and pneumonia that they can get from showing, but not CAE. Otherwise showing herds like Pruittville Nubians with whole herd neg wouldn't be able to stay that way.

SherrieC · #10 02/07/11, 11:31 AM

I love Biotracking! I'm sending some blood in this week on my herd and two of them are getting pregnancy checked as well. I draw all my own blood, have for the past maybe 5 or so years as the veterarian charges $ 25 a goat for a CAE test. Well I only have 20 + goats. The major things that affect the test is Stress and Illness, if you have a goat with antibodies in her blood due to a recent illness that can throw the test. So you would retest that one. I know a lady who just bought a goat from a Huge national herd, who tested poss for the CAE, and we are all hoping for her that it was the recent illness the goat had. Retesting is the only way to be sure on that. If you have an iffy test it is wise to test every 6 months until you get 2-3 negs in a row, and then back to yearly testing.
Sometimes at shows folks leave milk buckets around, stuff happens. Some darling folks sometimes infect others stock on purpose. I don't like taking bottle babies to shows. Also people bag the udders up on animals till the milk is sometimes Streaming, if your goat came into contact with that its' possible. But this is all IMO a rarity to happen.

Creamers · #11 02/07/11, 11:32 AM

No, I mean there are folks who sabotage herds - since this happened and I've talked to a few other shows herds via email. . .I've gotten that story a lot, though it isn't their own herds. . .very sad. . .folks take
kids that are being bottlefed to nationals and it would be pretty easy, I suppose, to do such a thing. . .

Unless I pull blood on a goat and test it myself - lol - I'm not buying negative stories from anyone anymore - lol.

The moral is - I better see the proof and know that blood came from THAT goat.

susanne · #12 02/07/11, 01:16 PM

please retest. it would not be the first time to get positive result from a negative animal.

prairiedog · #13 02/07/11, 01:58 PM

Ther have been cases of people milking out their goats at shows and then feeding the milk to others babies they thought were hungry. So if that happened then your kids that you have with you could get CAE from positive milk

Creamers · #14 02/07/11, 02:40 PM

I'm going to retest through WADDL to be certain, but I'm going to let my friend take them . . . for now. . .
Since these had their dam to test positive. . .and since they are the only ones positive from my testing. . .I have little hope -
Chuck, at biotracking, said to test a 60% - stress and other illness can't be a factor.