Please HELP! 2 Dead babies...one survived..problems

[Mommyto5]

Hi All
Well...after a very difficult labor, our Doe gave birth today with the help of a vet. She was pushing for a while, and my gut just told me that something wasn't right. I've had concerns about the way her vagina area looked, and my suspicions were correct. We had a problem!

Anyway...long story short, the vet pulled out the first buckling, small but alive. The other two were lifeless. He tried to revive the 3rd one, but was unsuccessful. The problem we're having now is that the buckling is very weak. He wasn't even holding his head up for a LONG time, but I used a syringe to get some colostrum into him and he seemed to perk up a bit. He is 6 1/2 hours old now and still really struggling to stand. He is finally trying...and doing more crying...both good signs, I guess. He's definitely stronger than he was, but surely not as strong as our other kids were at this point. When he does manage to get himself up, he's real wobbly and doesn't even attempt to walk. He just stands there and shakes...and cries. And, his hind legs seem to bend inward. I'm wondering if that's because he's weak, or if maybe something is wrong with them. I'm happy that he's finally putting out some effort...but I'm really worried about him because so much time has passed. Not to mention it's the coldest day of the year, here. (in the low teens)

I keep going out every 1/2 hour or so to check on him, and give him some more colostrum with the syringe. I squirted some on "mom's" teat then held him up to it and he did try to half-heartedly latch on. He just doesn't seem to have the strength to put effort into standing, much less standing and feeding at the same time. I'm actually concerned that something may be wrong with his hind legs because of the way this knees bend in. Do you think that's just because he's weak? Anyone have suggestions?

I'm hesitant to pull him inside unless I absolutely have to because I do think it's best for him to be with "mom." I wanna give them every chance to make it work. If he's too weak to stand, is it because there's a more serious issue and are we just prolonging the inevitable by intevening? Any help you can offer would be sooooo much appreciated!!! This is our first "bad" kidding experience and it sent me for a loop. The vet wasn't really helpful either, to be honest. I think he's more of a "horse guy!" He just kind of told me not to worry about anything, saying he should be up and walking in 1 hour and feeding in 2. Well...neither one happened. So, now what?? Please...HELP!

[Oat Bucket Farm]

Give him a 1/2 cc of Bo-Se (you will need to get it from the vet) and squeeze a vit e gel cap in his mouth. This will help him get a better suck reflex and should help his legs too. If its that cold and he is the only baby right now, I would pull him inside to make sure he stays good and warm.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Ditto on both BoSe and E. Also tube more colostrum into him.

[nehimama]

Good advice! I hope the little one makes it.

[6e]

We have the same problem with our vet. He's more of a cow guy and treats all livestock like cows. Sigh. :-)

Ditto on the Bo-se

[Cannon_Farms]

bring him in do not let him be outside he probably cant control his temp. His legs and such can be because of the crowded conditions in the womb. If you dont have BOSE you can use syrup on his tongue to give him a boost.

[julieq]

So sorry for your loss! I agree with the excellent advice already given. And if you can in the future it would be helpful to find a local vet who's familiar with goats. Our vet is and that sure helps.

[thaiblue12]

I fourth of fifth the Bo-Se and vit E, too bad the vet did not give him some when he was right there.

If you really do not want to separate him from his mom, put them in your garage, or even your mud room. I have had a doe and her twins in my mudroom. Put an old towel down in the corner and the doe wil pee on it to avoid peeing on a floor that "splashes", well mine did
If you think your husband would freak, then put the buckling in a warm wooly coat and try your best to keep him warm.

Heat lamps scare the snot out of me due to the fact that my barn is wood, has hay, wood shavings and etc in it. I tied and etc to secure one once and within a minute my tall Nubian was reaching for the cord and tugging on it! But if you think you can safely put one in your barn and then triple knot the cord and screw it into the wall and etc, then use it as well.

[Backfourty,MI.]

I also think the BoSe & the Vitamin E capsule(just the liquid from the capsule) are good ideas.

The bowed legs could very well be from being so crowded in moms belly. The hard labor could also be making him slow at latching on, etc. I think it tuckers out the doe & the kids. Give him a little time & keep trying to get him to latch on to momma, if not use your syringe & keep getting colustrum in him.

If you don't want to seperate mom & baby, make sure they have a really good place to stay in a stall, garage, etc. I give my babies a hot water bottle under an old towel in the house or stall with their mom & they snuggle right up on it. I have had singles born without anyone but momma to snuggle with & they do fine. I always use the hot water bottle though.
I too like to dam raise my kids if at all possible, I agree that I think it's better for the kids.
Keep a close eye on him & let us know how he does please.

[motdaugrnds]

I have had kids with legs as you described. A fourth cc of Bo-Se fixed them right up.

In your case, with him being one of 3, I would certainly add the Vit E and would also give him a big glob of Probias Paste along with the colostrum frequently. One of the most important things to do is keep him warm while his little body acclimates to the situation and gets stronger. I would do this even if I had to separate him from his mother for a short period of time; also put a warm little coat on him, fixing it in such a way that he cannot pee on it. (I have had to separate kids from their dams for short periods of time and all it takes to re-unite them is a "small" place where they can be placed for a few days for time to bond. Going into that small place and keeping colustrum in him would be a must.)

Same thing occurs here in that our local vets, though good hearted with helpful intentions, know little about goats.

[SherrieC]

Get the BoSe and Vit E in him and keep him warm, I would tube feed him colustrum but his temp needs to be warm enough first. I would bring him in warm him up medicate, tube feed him put a sweater on him. Then tuck him back in with mom in a warm stall.
I have dealt with much worse legs and they come out of it.

[secretcreek]

Colostrum does it's magic only for the first twelve hours. Certainly won't hurt but it's that first meal that's so important for immunities, etc. Why probios- his little rumen isn't working yet? Some breeders give a wee bit of molasses/coffee along with the bo-se and Vit E to jump start and give energy and to strengthen his weak muscles/legs etc... Keeping warm is important as was mentioned. Keep encouraging the lil fella.

-scrt crk

[Backfourty,MI.]

Originally Posted by secretcreek

Colostrum does it's magic only for the first twelve hours. Certainly won't hurt but it's that first meal that's so important for immunities, etc. Why probios- his little rumen isn't working yet? Some breeders give a wee bit of molasses/coffee along with the bo-se and Vit E to jump start and give energy and to strengthen his weak muscles/legs etc... Keeping warm is important as was mentioned. Keep encouraging the lil fella.

-scrt crk

I also don't agree with giving newborns probios paste. There rumens are not working at this young age. I don't think it's good to put anything more in there little mouths than the Vitamin E liquid & mom's coulstrum & milk. At that age nothing else should actually be put down his throat.
BoSe is different, that's in a shot form.

[nigeriandwarfs]

I have heard Coffee for weak babies really helps give them the energy they need to nurse. Good luck, and I am so sorry for your loss.

[PrettyPaisley]

I'm so sorry. No advice just big hugs.

[Mommyto5]

Hi everyone!

Thank you sooooo much for all your help and kind words. I ended up bringing him in the house when I last went down because the Mama is not allowing him to latch on. He was just crying and crying and when I held him up to nurse, she was kicking him off. (He really didn't latch on, though.) Temps are expected to drop into the single digits, so I decided it would be best for him to spend tonight inside. I am hoping to reunite him with his mama in the morning as tomorrow the temps are expected to be in the 40s. She was so sad when we took him. She was looking everywhere for him.

Right now, he's in my "doggie room" with a sweater and heat. He's taking about 3 cc of colostrum at a time. How often should I give it to him? I wish I could tube him, but unfortunately, don't have a tube! I gave him the vit. E, but I guess I'll have to wait until tomorrow to get the BoSe from a vet. I really thought I had some, but I don't. Should I do Molasses? Or is coffee better?

Regarding the vet...I've called all over and there are no goat vets. The biggest help is actually the owner of the feed store in a "farm town" about 30 minutes away. We're planning on joining 4H, so hopefully we'll find some resources there for the future.

As you can see from the pictures below, he's standing now, and even taking some very wobbly steps! Guess I'll be pulling an all-nighter. Just need to know how often you think I should feed him if he's only taking 3 cc at a time. Suggestions?

Again...thank you all for your advice, encouragement, and compassion!

[Jyllie63]

He is absolutely adorable!

[Mommyto5]

He is absolutely adorable!
__________________

We think so, too! We're in love already!!!

[Oat Bucket Farm]

O-M-G That is just the cutest picture! If he's hardly taking any I would offer it quite often for now. Like some of the others, I would not put probios or anything other than milk or colostrum in his belly.

[Mommyto5]

thank you, Oat Bucket! Right now, he seems to be crying every hour, so that's when I go in and feed him. Do you think that sounds about right? This last time, just a few minutes ago, he was actually "nudging" my leg like he would his mama. So, I'm hoping he's getting the idea that food is a good thing!